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Distributor Query
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Marvel
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:39 am    Post subject: Distributor Query Reply with quote

I'm getting used to my recently acquired Type 3 and note that it runs a bit hot. I don't know exactly the spec of the engine but its a single port 1500 or 1600 with twin carbs. The distributor is an SVDA number 021-905-205P which is from a 1979 bus. This distributor should be timed to 7.5deg BTDC @ 900rpm and should advance 8-13deg @ 1600rpm and 20.5.24.5deg @ 3400rpm. In addition it should advance 8.5-11deg @ 7.9"Hg vacuum. So a maximum of 30deg plus another 10deg when on light throttle. As far as I can tell the car should have a vacuum only distributor 311-905-205D or 341-205-905 with the twin carbs but I don't know the advance details of these.
My question is will the 021-905-205P work with the twin carb vacuum or will it advance too soon? If it does can I disconnect the vacuum and just use the centrifugal advance?
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tasb
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:15 am    Post subject: Re: Distributor Query Reply with quote

Good morning, you already know the answer to your first question, it'll run but not well. No, you can't run the distributor on vacuum only nor would you want too. You'd spend a lot of time locking out the mechanical advance and getting it to work the way you want it. The vacuum advance typically comes in quick and full not ideal for a street engine.

The 311 D distributor is not common but can be found if one searches. It should cost no more than $40 for a core and @ $175 restored. The 341 905 205 is an interesting option. It is more commonly known by the Bosch badge ZV/JCU 4 R 3( you won't find a distributor with the 341 number on it). It's actually an SVDA and is the last of the cast iron distributors used by VW. It is also not a common distributor and it is spendy because it's sought after. The cap is pricey since it was a one year only one model (311 S model for 1964).
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tasb
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:26 am    Post subject: Re: Distributor Query Reply with quote

Ah, mis-read, you want to run without vacuum advance. Yes you could but again, you'd be spending time making adjustments instead of running the proper distributor.
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1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equiped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
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gt1953
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:37 am    Post subject: Re: Distributor Query Reply with quote

Maybe try obtaining a distributor may work correctly
311 905 205F

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2452580
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tasb
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 12:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Distributor Query Reply with quote

The 311 D and F are slightly different but do use the same vacuum canister. The 311 F was installed on 1966 1600 L model.
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1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equiped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1960 sunroof beetle owned since 1991 36 hp
1965 hrdtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Distributor Query Reply with quote

Another option would be to use an SVDA from/for a bug. That's what I've been running in my 65 Notch (dual Solex carbs, dual port heads, and 1600cc engine) since 2006. You really want a German one. Another option from that is an SVDA FI type 3 distributor. You really want the 311 905 205L version as it has the best advance curve. I have one on my spare carb motor.
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
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tasb
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Distributor Query Reply with quote

If the OP was unhappy with his 021 905 205 P he very likely won't enjoy a 311 905 205 L. The advance curves and vacuum canisters are nearly identical.
_________________
Roads Scholar & distributor restorations
1956 oval third owner 36 hp- slow drag Champion 2012, 2014, 2015, 2017
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equiped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1960 sunroof beetle owned since 1991 36 hp
1965 hrdtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse
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Marvel
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Distributor Query Reply with quote

AFAIK the 64/65 1500 with twin carbs had vacuum only and SVDA distributors. Were the carbs the same for either distributor or different. I know Beetle carbs are different which makes me think Type 3 were too. If my carbs are for use with a vacuum only distributor will they work with SVDA or vice versa? Iíve got both and 009 so plenty to choose from but the vacuum only is shorter and fits under the engine lid without fouling.
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gt1953
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Distributor Query Reply with quote

According to my Floyd Clymer manual it shows for the dual carbed engines the distributor Bosch 311 905 205D.

I have a dual carbed engine and currently using a German 009. I am pleased with performance.
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Volkswagen: We tune what we drive.
Numbers Matching VW's are getting harder to find. Source out the most Stock vehicle and keep that way. You will be glad you did.

72 type 1
73 type 1
72 Squareback
({59 Euro bug, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69 type ones 68 & 69 type two, 68 Ghia all sold})
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Marvel
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Distributor Query Reply with quote

Thereís a 205D for sale in classifieds and itís a vacuum only so maybe the one I have will work. Anyone know the the advance/vacuum spec for the 205D ?
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Distributor Query Reply with quote

Marvel wrote:
Thereís a 205D for sale in classifieds and itís a vacuum only so maybe the one I have will work. Anyone know the the advance/vacuum spec for the 205D ?


You could check the tech section of this site. The link to it is in the upper right corner of the page.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
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Tram wrote:
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Glenn Premium Member
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Distributor Query Reply with quote

Marvel wrote:
Anyone know the the advance/vacuum spec for the 205D ?

Advance/Retard Range: Vacuum: 2-5deg Adv, 11-13deg Ret; Centrifugal: 12-16deg @ 2200rpm, 22-25deg @ 3800rpm
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tasb
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Distributor Query Reply with quote

If the '205 D" you are seeing is vacuum only the specs that Glenn gave you are for a different"205 D" distributor since its giving you a retard specification. You are looking at a 311 D correct? The 311 D delivers @ 20 degrees of vacuum only advance and requires only 50mm Hg to do so. Looks like Glenn may be giving you specs for a 043 D distributor which is a DVDA not compatible for Type III
_________________
Roads Scholar & distributor restorations
1956 oval third owner 36 hp- slow drag Champion 2012, 2014, 2015, 2017
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equiped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1960 sunroof beetle owned since 1991 36 hp
1965 hrdtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse


Last edited by tasb on Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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tasb
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Distributor Query Reply with quote

Carburetors designed to work with a vacuum only distributor will not work with the later SVDA's. The SVDA's require @ 180-200 mmHg to deliver @ 8-12 degrees of advance while the vacuum only distributors fully advance at @ 50mm Hg delivering @ 20-32 degrees of advance.

With that said the ZV/JCU 4 R 3 used on 1964 S models is an exception vacuum advance 8-12 degrees with @ 270mm Hg and the rest is mechanical advance.
_________________
Roads Scholar & distributor restorations
1956 oval third owner 36 hp- slow drag Champion 2012, 2014, 2015, 2017
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equiped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1960 sunroof beetle owned since 1991 36 hp
1965 hrdtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Distributor Query Reply with quote

Marvel wrote:
AFAIK the 64/65 1500 with twin carbs had vacuum only and SVDA distributors. Were the carbs the same for either distributor or different. I know Beetle carbs are different which makes me think Type 3 were too. If my carbs are for use with a vacuum only distributor will they work with SVDA or vice versa? Iíve got both and 009 so plenty to choose from but the vacuum only is shorter and fits under the engine lid without fouling.


AFAIK the carbs were the same, it was the pistons that determined which combo got the SVDA distributor ("S" engine). On those engines, they had domed pistons, and higher compression ratios. The vacuum only engines had dished pistons and lower compression ("N" engine).
For 66,VW used flat top pistons and a vacuum only distributor with dual carbs.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives."
Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Distributor Query Reply with quote

tasb wrote:
If the OP was unhappy with his 021 905 205 P he very likely won't enjoy a 311 905 205 L. The advance curves and vacuum canisters are nearly identical.


I have it set up to run with my Weber 34 ICT carbs. Runs just fine. It's my spare ready to toss in, in case I need it engine. I'm glad nobody told me it wasn't supposed to work. I do get 26 MPG with that combo (engine) in my Notch. Wink My regular engine gets 27 mpg with the Solex carbs and SVDA on it.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives."
Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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tasb
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:04 am    Post subject: Re: Distributor Query Reply with quote

Got it! All bets off the table with non stock carburetors with me. I've got nothing against experimenting, sometimes you win!

Before we go hog wild here be aware that the SVDA used on the 1964 S model (similar to the Beetle SVDA 36 hp VJU 4 BR 8 ) and the later "034" as an example, are not the same.
_________________
Roads Scholar & distributor restorations
1956 oval third owner 36 hp- slow drag Champion 2012, 2014, 2015, 2017
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equiped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
1960 sunroof beetle owned since 1991 36 hp
1965 hrdtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc
1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse


Last edited by tasb on Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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W1K1
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Distributor Query Reply with quote

there is always the option of the CB black box, and just lock out the advance on the distributor.
Then you can program your own advance curve, it's nice to be able to see what's going on while you're driving, instead of swapping distributors to get an advance curve your engine likes.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=606203
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=699155


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Marvel
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2021 12:40 am    Post subject: Re: Distributor Query Reply with quote

That's interesting. I've got a Megajolt system on my Bonito and it works very well. You can mimic VW maps or make your own using rpm and vacuum.

My Type 34 is very early 65 so should have 311-905-205D vacuum only distributor. However the 64 ZV/JCU 4R3 is a centrifugal/vacuum. Can the same carbs really provide a vacuum signal for both types or did the carbs change too?
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Distributor Query Reply with quote

Marvel wrote:
That's interesting. I've got a Megajolt system on my Bonito and it works very well. You can mimic VW maps or make your own using rpm and vacuum.

My Type 34 is very early 65 so should have 311-905-205D vacuum only distributor. However the 64 ZV/JCU 4R3 is a centrifugal/vacuum. Can the same carbs really provide a vacuum signal for both types or did the carbs change too?


You'd have to look thru the carb thread in this forum that someone already worked up. There were multiple changes thru the years, along with other changes to the carbs themselves (like high altitude jets). However, most dual carbs used in 65 were for the ZV/JCU 4R3 distributor ("S" engines), and the 205D's were used with the single side draft ("N" engines) until 66 when both dual and single carb engines used that distributor.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives."
Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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