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zoti
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2007
Posts: 2165
Location: Plano, TX USA
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 Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:33 am Post subject: Temp Sensor 2 |
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Does anyone know of a resistance / temp chart for the Temp Sensor 2 of the 2.1L engine?
I'm familiar with the chart that is in the Bentley but I'm looking for something more specific like manufacturer chart.
The Meyle part number is: 100 800 9050 (Blue temp sensor). |
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ALIKA T3
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Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 7300
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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zoti
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2007
Posts: 2165
Location: Plano, TX USA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 4:22 pm Post subject: Re: Temp Sensor 2 |
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| ALIKA T3 wrote: |
What's wrong with the Bentley chart?
What are you trying to achieve?
Meyle is junk, don't assume it's good bc it's new. |
Working on developing something for the van.
Why is Meyle junk? It's uber German. |
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syncrodoka
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2005
Posts: 12408
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:52 pm Post subject: Re: Temp Sensor 2 |
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| Uber junk. I have had a few myle parts fail in short order, months not years. |
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DigiMatrix
Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2010
Posts: 505
Location: Up North Canada
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| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:26 pm Post subject: Re: Temp Sensor 2 |
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Does this help?
If you read up on the Steinhart–Hart equation, the data above can be converted to an equation but you have to be able to solve 3 equations and 3 unknowns. A lookup table also works fine.
_________________
_________________
'91 Syncro Westfalia
soon to be 2.5 liter stroker WBX 10:1 comp
Digifant ECU with knock sensor and custom
cylinder selective knock control by me |
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zoti
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2007
Posts: 2165
Location: Plano, TX USA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:25 pm Post subject: Re: Temp Sensor 2 |
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| DigiMatrix wrote: |
Does this help?
If you read up on the Steinhart–Hart equation, the data above can be converted to an equation but you have to be able to solve 3 equations and 3 unknowns. A lookup table also works fine. |
I've managed to get this table from one of the emails you sent me. This is the Synchro temp sensor, right? but the resistance / temp values are just like the blue sensor?
We are currently working on figuring out what the ICU uses the temp for. Looks like at certain temp it closes the ICV (when engine warmed up enough).
-* |
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DigiMatrix
Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2010
Posts: 505
Location: Up North Canada
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| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:27 pm Post subject: Re: Temp Sensor 2 |
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If you compare them to the chart in the Bentley they look to be correct - doesn't matter which type (Syncro or not)
I can't say what the ICU is doing but I suspect it is adjusting the ISV to adjust Idle RPM at certain temperatures. On the closed loop control in the supercharged engines using Digifant1, the idle RPM setpoint varies with temperature. See below:
At -13 degC Idle setpoint is 1087 RPM
At 18 degC the idle setpoint is 940 RPM
Fully warmed up it is set to 811 RPM
Also note that with the sensor disconnected (Open) it sets the RPM to 1050 RPM
_________________
_________________
'91 Syncro Westfalia
soon to be 2.5 liter stroker WBX 10:1 comp
Digifant ECU with knock sensor and custom
cylinder selective knock control by me
Last edited by DigiMatrix on Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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zoti
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2007
Posts: 2165
Location: Plano, TX USA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:38 pm Post subject: Re: Temp Sensor 2 |
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Where are these tables (info) from?
| DigiMatrix wrote: |
If you compare them to the chart in the Bentley they look to be correct - doesn't matter which type (Syncro or not)
I can't say what the ICU is doing but I suspect it is adjusting the ISV to adjust Idle RPM at certain temperatures. On the closed loop control in the supercharged engines using Digifant1, the idle RPM setpoint varies with temperature. See below:
At -13 degC Idle setpoint is 1087 RPM
At 18 degC the idle setpoint is 940 RPM
Fully warmed up it is set to 811 RPM
Also note that with the sensor disconnected (Open) it sets the RPM to 1050 RPM |
Last edited by zoti on Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:45 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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DigiMatrix
Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2010
Posts: 505
Location: Up North Canada
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| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:42 pm Post subject: Re: Temp Sensor 2 |
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From the chip used in the G60 Supercharged engine that uses onboard closed loop idle control. It is a later varient that uses the same ECU circuit boards but more components are populated - the ECU controls the ISV.
_________________
_________________
'91 Syncro Westfalia
soon to be 2.5 liter stroker WBX 10:1 comp
Digifant ECU with knock sensor and custom
cylinder selective knock control by me |
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zoti
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2007
Posts: 2165
Location: Plano, TX USA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:47 pm Post subject: Re: Temp Sensor 2 |
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| DigiMatrix wrote: |
| From the chip used in the G60 Supercharged engine that uses onboard closed loop idle control. It is a later varient that uses the same ECU circuit boards but more components are populated - the ECU controls the ISV. |
Gotcha. |
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Nitramrebrab72
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Joined: November 10, 2018
Posts: 983
Location: France
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:40 am Post subject: Re: Temp Sensor 2 |
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| ALIKA T3 wrote: |
What's wrong with the Bentley chart?
What are you trying to achieve?
Meyle is junk, don't assume it's good bc it's new. |
I agree about Meyle. |
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DanHoug
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016
Posts: 5914
Location: Bemidji, MN
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:41 am Post subject: Re: Temp Sensor 2 |
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| zoti wrote: |
We are currently working on figuring out what the ICU uses the temp for. Looks like at certain temp it closes the ICV (when engine warmed up enough).
-* |
just to be persnickity, the ICV never closes but uses a pulsed 12v to achieve the desired dwell time of the piston. with the idle speed screw properly set, meaning the ICV current is at 830ma, the engine will die when the ICV is closed or disconnected. that desired 830ma is an averaged current of the off/on state of the ICV.
i know you know this given your development of the board but it may be confusing to others.
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com
Last edited by DanHoug on Thu Sep 22, 2022 10:27 am; edited 1 time in total |
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zoti
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2007
Posts: 2165
Location: Plano, TX USA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:36 am Post subject: Re: Temp Sensor 2 |
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| DanHoug wrote: |
| zoti wrote: |
We are currently working on figuring out what the ICU uses the temp for. Looks like at certain temp it closes the ICV (when engine warmed up enough).
-* |
just to be persnickity, the ICV never closes but uses a pulsed 12v to achieve the desired dwell time of the shutter vane. with the idle speed screw properly set, meaning the ICV current is at 830ma, the engine will die when the ICV is closed or disconnected. that desired 830ma is an averaged current of the off/on state of the ICV.
i know you know this given your development of the board but it may be confusing to others. |
You mean 430ma? |
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DanHoug
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016
Posts: 5914
Location: Bemidji, MN
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:41 am Post subject: Re: Temp Sensor 2 |
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YES! 430, not 830ma. and i had just looked in the ProTraining too to confirm 430. brain told fingers to type 830.
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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DigiMatrix
Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2010
Posts: 505
Location: Up North Canada
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 10:20 am Post subject: Re: Temp Sensor 2 |
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A little more information regarding the ISV. It has an emergency function in case it fails.
In the G60 world some people would wrongly adjust the stop so no air bypass would occur. This defeats the emergency function so the engine will probably not idle and die if the ISV fails.
Note: info from SSP_103 (Self Study Program No. 103)
_________________
_________________
'91 Syncro Westfalia
soon to be 2.5 liter stroker WBX 10:1 comp
Digifant ECU with knock sensor and custom
cylinder selective knock control by me |
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DanHoug
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016
Posts: 5914
Location: Bemidji, MN
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 10:35 am Post subject: Re: Temp Sensor 2 |
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| DigiMatrix wrote: |
| Note: info from SSP_103 (Self Study Program No. 103) |
holy heck!!! never knew that resource existed. not sure i have enough time left to read it all!
https://cardiagn.com/vag-self-study-program-ssp/
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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zoti
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2007
Posts: 2165
Location: Plano, TX USA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 10:42 am Post subject: Re: Temp Sensor 2 |
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| DigiMatrix wrote: |
A little more information regarding the ISV. It has an emergency function in case it fails.
In the G60 world some people would wrongly adjust the stop so no air bypass would occur. This defeats the emergency function so the engine will probably not idle and die if the ISV fails.
Note: info from SSP_103 (Self Study Program No. 103) |
I'm not seeing this in the vanagon valve. Are they the same? |
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DigiMatrix
Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2010
Posts: 505
Location: Up North Canada
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 11:11 am Post subject: Re: Temp Sensor 2 |
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| zoti wrote: |
I'm not seeing this in the vanagon valve. Are they the same? |
Maybe they aren't the same. The stop adjustment may have been added later??? I like the idea of the engine not stalling if the ISV fails.
_________________
_________________
'91 Syncro Westfalia
soon to be 2.5 liter stroker WBX 10:1 comp
Digifant ECU with knock sensor and custom
cylinder selective knock control by me |
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 7300
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 11:33 am Post subject: Re: Temp Sensor 2 |
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| zoti wrote: |
| ALIKA T3 wrote: |
What's wrong with the Bentley chart?
What are you trying to achieve?
Meyle is junk, don't assume it's good bc it's new. |
Working on developing something for the van.
Why is Meyle junk? It's uber German. |
Sorry to break your heart, but Meyle is not uber German anymore since probably 30 years. They trick people by writting Meyle Germany on their boxes, while in fact, only the HQ are in Germany. Everything they get made is 90% garbage and often from China with poor QC and junk materials.
Avoid as much as possible.
I think Bosch dropped the ball on that sensor, that was the original brand, made in Germany until they moved production elesewhere or ceased it entirely.
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
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zoti
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2007
Posts: 2165
Location: Plano, TX USA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 1:56 pm Post subject: Re: Temp Sensor 2 |
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| DigiMatrix wrote: |
| zoti wrote: |
I'm not seeing this in the vanagon valve. Are they the same? |
Maybe they aren't the same. The stop adjustment may have been added later??? I like the idea of the engine not stalling if the ISV fails. |
With the ISV completely closed or disconnected I see idle of roughly 700RPM. It's low but the engine is still running.
At idle the valve is open about 20-25% and you obviously know that you set basic idle with the valve connected. |
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