'86 Vanagon running way too rich, Stalling once warmed up

[widespread panic]

I have an 86' vanagon that is running way to rich.Its dumping excess gas into oil.Its running horribly and lacking power.Runs great when first started, but digresses quickly shortly there after. Help me please!

[Terry Kay]

R&R the TPS.
You'll find that it will make a world of difference.
_________________
T.K.

[240Gordy]

what's TPS ?

[widespread panic]

what's R&R and TPS?

[Alan Brase]

While you are looking up TPS and R&R (rest and Relaxation?) Reach under the left side or the engine lid, find the SINGLE wire to the Oxygen sensor and disconnect it right there at a connector, just to the left of the left valve cover. The cable from the sensor (In the catalytic converter) has a two wire cable and a single wire coming out of it.)
See if that clears up the problem.
The engine is made to run at default setting if the Oxy sensor is disconnected or open. It runs quite well, actually.
If that doesn't make things better, then do a search for Throttle Position Switch on this forum's "Search" feature.
If those 2 things don't work, it's probably the temp sensor or connector for the FI right under the thermostat. One of mine had a bad connector there; I was looking around moving things slightly with it running really bad; when I touched that connector, it smoothed right out. It was luck on my part.
Al
_________________
Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home

[bucko]

Throttle Position Switch

Remove and Repair (refurbish)
_________________
Current VW drives: 1984 Westfalia

Past VW drives: 1967 Beetle, 1973 Beetle, 1977 Bus, 1971 Military Type 181

[Terry Kay]

Remove & Replace the Throttle Positioning Switch.

While your at it R&R the plastic TPS operating cam & retaning clip.

High wear item's, and should be replaced once every 100,000 miles or so--- whether it needs it or not.

First place to look, first place to start, on a rich running engine situation.
_________________
T.K.

[tencentlife]

R&R is Remove and Replace, as in put in a new or different component. Not Remove and Repair. Sorry Kevin.

R&I is Remove and Install, as in put back the same component.

When you pull out the engine to do a clutch, for instance, you R&I the engine, but R&R the clutch.

Confused? Don't look at me, I didn't invent the terms!

Most people just use R&R for everything, as you're usually doing the removal in order to replace the item with a new one. But not always.

These come from shop-time estimating books, which have hourly rates for every operation.


Now, the dumping fuel into the engine. If it's enough to dilute the oil, it's most likely one of two things:

1.bad FPR (Fuel Pressure Regulator).

or

2. a short of the O2 sensor signal wire to ground.

There are two tests for the FPR. The first one is easy. The FPR is the little round canister thing just ahead of and a bit to the right of the distributor cap, usually gold in color, attached to the intake air plenum (see the link below for a picture of it). It has three fuel hoses attached, plus a single small vacuum hose. Pull the vac hose from the FPR and stick a screw into the end of the hose to plug it, or hold your finger over the end. Place a rag between the FPR and the diz to catch fuel that may come out, and have a helper ready to shut down the engine. Start the motor. If any fuel, even a single drop, comes out of the vac nipple of the FPR (not the vac hose, the metal nipple on the back of the FPR), then the FPR has a torn diaphragm, and must be replaced. Fuel is leaking past the diaphragm and thru the vac hose into the intake air plenum, flooding the motor. If it's very bad the leakage may spray out the nipple, which is why you have a rag handy to catch it.

Second FPR test is routine but you need a pressure gauge. Near the FPR is another junction that also has three fuel hoses going to it. It's just a pipe tee, but has an extra nipple projecting out the top of it with a tiny bolt screwed into it. The bolt plugs the pressure test nipple. Remove the bolt and put a fuel pressure gauge on the nipple (careful when removing the bolt as there is a bit of stored pressure in the lines, so there will be a little spray at first. Just wrap a rag around the tool you use as you unscrew the plug. The fuel won't keep spraying after the initial release. Observe the same precautions when removing your gauge after the test).

Now, with the gauge attached, run the engine. With the vac hose attached to the FPR, pressure should be 2 bar or 29 psi. Then remove the vac hose momentarily. Pressure should rise immediately to 2.5 bar or 36 psi. If it's higher in either test, new FPR.

Here's the part:

http://www.van-cafe.com/vanagon_parts.jsp?pa=p&p=1602230117&pct=273863386&ct=63982861



The other most probable cause is the shorting of the O2 sensor signal to ground. This comes up frequently, and has been covered extensively, like in this thread:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=235008&highlight=signal+coax

The tipoff that this is the problem is that the van runs great on a cold start, but after several minutes, longer if starting in cold weather, the thing bogs down and spews black sooty smoke out of the exhaust. Turn off, restart, and the problem is gone for a few more minutes. The warmer the motor is, the shorter the grace period will be before it runs badly, but every time, you will get a new grace period on a restart. With a fully warm motor the grace period will be as little as one minute, it could be as long as ten when starting in cold weather. If the problem is black sooty rich exhaust, and goes away on restart only to return after a short time, then this is your baby.

There is a last, but less likely cause, which is one or more injectors being stuck open or having a very concentrated spray pattern, so the fuel isn't being atomised and is just running as liquid into the intake valve. This will also soak down the cylinder with fuel, some of which will go past the rings and end up diluting the oil. If the FPR and O2 signal wire check out, check back and we'll point you to how to check injector spray patterns (sounds fancy but it's not hard to do).
_________________
Shop for unique and useful Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/
also available at VanCafe.com!

Please don't PM here, I will not reply.

Experience is death to doctrine.

[widespread panic]

First and foremost thanks so much for all the responses! Phenomenal stuff to work with. Must admit I was doing the wrong stuff and spending a heck of alot of money. Any way it all needed to be replaced. Thanks again for all your help, here we go again.........

[vanaglobal]

Hey guys,

Thanks for all the tips.
I've been having the same problem.

But before I go to tackle this I was just wondering what your best guess for my situation was.

My Vanagon suddenly lost power after we got dumped by snow.
It now runs pretty bad. Idles very funky and shaky. When I drive it feels like not all pistons are firing. A lot of black smoke too.

Best place to start

Thanks

[Tom Powell]

[Merian]

repl. rotor & cap too - all of it is part of a good tuneup and needs to be done periodically as regular maintenance

[Wildthings]

Maybe you have gotten water in the fuel? There are various seals and hoses on the tank that fail with age and will let water enter the tank when the vehicle is driven in the rain or snow.

[Alan Brase]

While rain and snow often make weak high tension components fail, about only one thing usually fails like this and it is the O2 sensor. And it will take you 1 minute to check it, by just unhooking it and let the system go to default. The default map is esentially the same parameter that L-jetronic had before closed loop systems, and they work pretty good that way.
And if you have an exhaust leak AHEAD of the sensor you MUST unhook it or it will run bad and possibly ruin your catalytic converter.
Like I said 8 years ago.
Second guess for me would be the temp sensor CONNECTOR by the thermostat.
Al
_________________
Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home

[x3itchka]

Hey guys I'm working on my 83 Westy waterboxer- sat in my carport for 9 years!! Had to clear the carport this weekend, jacked up front put air in the tires and drained the fuel tank- the fuel pump was DOA, replaced it and the filter, dropped a battery in and it turned over but no start. Sprayed starter fluid in intake and nothing, replaced plugs and nothing, then tried again and it started!! Lifters were sticky but got better after a few minutes- I remember it was running rich before the long layover, also I drove it around for 5 miles then stopped, it would not start! later tried again and it started cold, drove around got it hot parked at home and would not start! Seems as soon as it gets hot it will not restart- any ideas whats going on???

also thanks for the replies on running rich- I'll start there and see if any changes

thanks!

[jlrftype7]

[Wildthings]

Check the resistance of the TSII sensor at the sensor and from the plug on the ECU.

[wehrbüchse]

Sorry to resurrect an ancient thread guys. I'm just kinda desperate and this thread had the best discussion of symptoms I'm dealing with. I'm beyond my wit's end. I spent a year off and on attempting to diagnose this van's problem before the rapidly approaching deadline to move out of my house and be on my way to another state forced my hand. I had AAA tow it to a highly reputed local VW mechanic. He had it for three weeks, but said he could no longer work on it with the coolant pump weep hole dripping so badly. I picked it up yesterday hoping to make it home to swap in a good pump (can't swing the $900 the shop wants), paid the shop $1000 for his having repeated all of my own tests, and right on schedulel it ran great for a couple miles before it started backfiring and simply stopped in a particularly sketchy neighborhood halfway home. Once it cooled down it ran again for a mile before it quit. It sat all night but now won't start at all. I'm in the middle of a nightmarish, humongous move and that $1k shop hit with zero improvement was a bitter, painful blow.

[Alan Brase]

And just what happens when you unhook the O2 sensor and force it to run default map?
BTW that is what it is running when you first start it. After a few minutes it switches to closed loop and the problem starts.
_________________
Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home

[wehrbüchse]