Author |
Message |
gergokocsis Samba Member
Joined: January 14, 2022 Posts: 9
|
Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:20 am Post subject: Installing engine: Won't slide in |
|
|
Hi everyone!
While installing my engine I've run into a problem. I could line up the bottom engine studs with their holes on the gearbox housing and I could slide the engine in but just halfway. On every available source about engine reinstalling it seems that everybody could just push the engine back into place with little to no trouble. Some says that it took a few minutes of wiggling to finally pop it into place but I've been trying for days with no success.
I haven't replaced the clutch or did anything to that area that could influence the alignment since the removal. The flywheel is perfectly parallel to the bell housing and the bottom studs are inside their holes. The engine can move freely, the heater boxes aren't banging against the firewall. I've rotated the crankshaft a dozen times so the input shaft can align but that didn't help either. I've tried putting the car in gear and rotating one wheel while holding the other to rotate the shaft too but no success.
I've been wrestling with it for days, does anyone have any tip?
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
matthew henricks Samba Member
Joined: January 02, 2002 Posts: 1219 Location: So. Cal
|
Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:24 am Post subject: Re: Installing engine: Won't slide in |
|
|
Curious what parts you did change while the engine was out? That may give you a clue to why it wont go in. Also can you tell where exactly is it sticking?
My initial thought was the clutch is either out of rotation or out of alignment but it sounds like you have checked that.
Not alot of help but maybe food for thought. _________________ 1964 Original Owner build Thread. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=702135&highlight=
Ambulance Fan's. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=627707&highlight=
Parts i am looking for:
64 bug nice used front/rear Black LHD floor mat. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
vwoldbug Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2009 Posts: 1214 Location: Ohio
|
Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2022 11:02 am Post subject: Re: Installing engine: Won't slide in |
|
|
When you pull the engine back out do you have a clutch alignment tool to check alignment . Also do you have a helper. What repair did you do. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Michael Ambrozik Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2020 Posts: 631 Location: San Jose, CA
|
Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2022 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: Installing engine: Won't slide in |
|
|
It looks like you installed new trans mounts, The studs that mount to the transmission are to long and need to be cut down. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31396 Location: Hot Arizona
|
Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2022 3:09 pm Post subject: Re: Installing engine: Won't slide in |
|
|
matthew henricks wrote: |
Curious what parts you did change while the engine was out? That may give you a clue to why it wont go in. |
That, and whether this is the same engine that came out of the VW.
And if you posted your location, gergokocsis - someone here might be close and could help you get that seated within 15 minutes.
[quote="gergokocsis"]I've been trying for days with no success.
I've been wrestling with it for days, does anyone have any tip?
Get some experienced help, will be easy ! _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297
Last edited by Cusser on Wed Jun 01, 2022 3:31 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
gt1953 Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2002 Posts: 13852 Location: White Mountains Arizona
|
Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2022 3:23 pm Post subject: Re: Installing engine: Won't slide in |
|
|
Seems like the clutch disc is ou of alignment. I have had the same issue, would not go in. A freind had a transmission input shaft, loaned it to me, realighned the clutch disc, then the engine slipped in. _________________ Volkswagen: We tune what we drive.
Numbers Matching VW's are getting harder to find. Source out the most Stock vehicle and keep that way. You will be glad you did.
72 type 1
72 Squareback
({59 Euro bug, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69, 73 type ones 68 & 69 type two, 68 Ghia all sold}) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31396 Location: Hot Arizona
|
Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2022 3:36 pm Post subject: Re: Installing engine: Won't slide in |
|
|
gt1953 wrote: |
Seems like the clutch disc is out of alignment. I have had the same issue, would not go in. A friend had a transmission input shaft, loaned it to me, realigned the clutch disc, then the engine slipped in. |
gergokocsis has few posts, and may be new to the VW world. He did not state whether his pressure plate had been removed, if it's the engine that came out of it, what he did while the engine was out, or his location. So it's tough to help without more information.
Myself - I do have a steel input shaft for aligning the clutch disc, and also found my wooden alignment tool. But when the wooden tool was misplaced for a decade, I did use pieces of old broom handle, even a dowel with area built up with duct tape. Easy if you know how to R&R an engine.... _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
gergokocsis Samba Member
Joined: January 14, 2022 Posts: 9
|
Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2022 4:27 pm Post subject: Re: Installing engine: Won't slide in |
|
|
I've pulled the engine last November to change the trans mounts and to change the gearbox nose cone, so I didn't do anything to the engine, yes it is the engine that came out in November. I can wiggle it around the center so I suppose the input shaft is not lining up. I didn't checked the clutch alignment because I've assumed that it didn't change in the past few months, is it possible that that's the problem? I work alone and I'm located in Hungary, Europe so I don't think that any of you would be within a few minutes of drive. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2003 Posts: 4863 Location: Harmony, PA
|
Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2022 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: Installing engine: Won't slide in |
|
|
Michael Ambrozik wrote: |
It looks like you installed new trans mounts, The studs that mount to the transmission are to long and need to be cut down. |
This is the only issue I have ever had in hundreds of engine installs that completely baffled me. If the threads are quite a bit past a wave washer, and a standard non-locking nut, there is your issue. Color the face of the teeth of the flywheel with a marker, and see if any is rubbed off on an install attempt. The studs on the mount in the pic below were about 1/8 of an inch too long.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31396 Location: Hot Arizona
|
Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2022 6:24 pm Post subject: Re: Installing engine: Won't slide in |
|
|
gergokocsis wrote: |
I've pulled the engine last November to change the trans mounts and to change the gearbox nose cone, so I didn't do anything to the engine. |
Then likely the clutch disc is still where it had been.
[email protected] wrote: |
Michael Ambrozik wrote: |
It looks like you installed new trans mounts, The studs that mount to the transmission are to long and need to be cut down. |
This is the only issue I have ever had in hundreds of engine installs that completely baffled me. If the threads are quite a bit past a wave washer, and a standard non-locking nut, there is your issue. Color the face of the teeth of the flywheel with a marker, and see if any is rubbed off on an install attempt. The studs on the mount in the pic below were about 1/8 of an inch too long. |
Worth looking into... _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297
Last edited by Cusser on Thu Jun 02, 2022 6:16 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
mukluk Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2012 Posts: 7032 Location: Clyde, TX
|
Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2022 6:37 pm Post subject: Re: Installing engine: Won't slide in |
|
|
Cusser wrote: |
But it looks like he installed the new mounts with the bolt heads up in the bell housing, not from underneath - at least on the one we can see. But agree that if bolt heads were on the outside, then the threaded part would be too long. |
The bolts that can be seen in either of the OP's pics are not the ones that can cause the problem, regardless of which way the bolts have been installed. You're only seeing the bolts that attach the mounts to the transmission cradle.
As seen in the picture below, the ones of concern are the two circled studs extending out of the mounts inward through the bellhousing.
_________________ 1960 Ragtop w/Semaphores "Inga" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
74 Thing Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2004 Posts: 7395
|
Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2022 7:41 pm Post subject: Re: Installing engine: Won't slide in |
|
|
If it not the mount bolt interference as indicated above then put the tranny in gear and turn the crankshaft pulley while pushing (you need to line up the splines on the clutch disc and the tranny output shaft so it goes together). |
|
Back to top |
|
|
gergokocsis Samba Member
Joined: January 14, 2022 Posts: 9
|
Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 2:10 am Post subject: Re: Installing engine: Won't slide in |
|
|
No, I don't think the trans mount bolts are the problem. Here you can see that the end of the studs are barely past the nuts inward the bell housing.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
AirHead1966 Samba Member
Joined: October 17, 2019 Posts: 568 Location: Triad Area NC
|
Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 4:59 am Post subject: Re: Installing engine: Won't slide in |
|
|
If there is nothing binding, then making sure that the car is lifted higher in the back than the front and the engine is going in at an angle (sloping towards the front of the car) would help lodge it in place. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dougy Dee Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2004 Posts: 1669 Location: Niagara Region, CANADA
|
Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 5:10 am Post subject: Re: Installing engine: Won't slide in |
|
|
Possibly the pilot bearing inside the gland nut has self destructed and is blocking the input shaft. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31396 Location: Hot Arizona
|
Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 6:19 am Post subject: Re: Installing engine: Won't slide in |
|
|
gergokocsis wrote: |
No, I don't think the trans mount bolts are the problem. Here you can see that the end of the studs are barely past the nuts inward the bell housing.
|
Yes, that looks fine.
I always loosen the wingnut on the clutch cable to its end, and grease/lube/clean that BEFORE I install any engine, then adjust the clutch cable after the install. I know you stated you didn't monkey with the clutch or cable, but that might be worth a try.
Yes, Hungary is a long way from Arizona, so I won't be traveling there to help. _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
vwoldbug Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2009 Posts: 1214 Location: Ohio
|
Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 6:59 pm Post subject: Re: Installing engine: Won't slide in |
|
|
Did you have a tough time pulling the engine back when removing . |
|
Back to top |
|
|
gergokocsis Samba Member
Joined: January 14, 2022 Posts: 9
|
Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2022 6:39 am Post subject: Re: Installing engine: Won't slide in |
|
|
I didn't have a tough time pulling it, it came out easily. I have read somewhere that when someone was stuck where i am now, they put two long bolts in the upper two mounting holes and cranked it down until the engine popped into place. I don't know, it sounds a bit unorthodox. Wouldn't it damage the input shaft? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dusty1 Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2004 Posts: 1435
|
Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2022 7:12 am Post subject: Re: Installing engine: Won't slide in |
|
|
gergokocsis wrote: |
I didn't have a tough time pulling it, it came out easily. I have read somewhere that when someone was stuck where i am now, they put two long bolts in the upper two mounting holes and cranked it down until the engine popped into place. I don't know, it sounds a bit unorthodox. Wouldn't it damage the input shaft? |
You've heard it a bunch of times... make sure the clutch is properly aligned using a pilot tool. Unless I missed something, you haven't checked it.
Mechanical work is often a methodical process of elimination. Don't assume anything isn't a problem until you've checked it. Go for the obvious stuff first, the low hanging fruit so to speak. Takes minutes to align the clutch disc. Takes days of screwing around if it isn't aligned.
Forcing things = breaking things. If it don't go, figure out why.
.
. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31396 Location: Hot Arizona
|
Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2022 7:20 am Post subject: Re: Installing engine: Won't slide in |
|
|
gergokocsis wrote: |
I have read somewhere that when someone was stuck where i am now, they put two long bolts in the upper two mounting holes and cranked it down until the engine popped into place. I don't know, it sounds a bit unorthodox. Wouldn't it damage the input shaft? |
I strongly advise AGAINST doing this !!!!
I've installed about 100 VW engines, most often by myself.... _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|