Wagon progress update Part 2... the problems

[Lars S]

To me the safety relay would cut out if heater does not start whithin 230sec.
Pic out of factory service manual for the BA4

/Lars S
_________________
Porsche 914 -72, Bahia Red daily driver
VW411 2-d -70, White, sold
VW412 4-d, -73, Gold Metallic, daily driver
Suzuki T500, -69, Candy Gold, sold
Suzuki K50, -77, Black, daily driver
BMW R69S -69, White, sold
Husqvarna 118cc, -47, Black, Sold

[Pepperbilly]

[raygreenwood]

[Pepperbilly]

You have no idea how happy I am this afternoon and I also have my late Dad to thank! He had the foresight back in the '80s to scrounge around for a gas heater at the Old Volks Home down by Boeing field here in Seattle. He has saved the day!

My heater diagnosis led me to a glow plug that was heating but was not firing the spark. I had a spare glow plug but it exhibited the same problem. I followed the procedures in my little BA 4 trouble shooting manual. Well, it led me to checking out the heater coil and it tested bad with the ohm meter at the terminals. Coil wire tested good. What do you know, I have a spare coil from the complete heater my Dad found years ago. I could not get it installed fast enough and BINGO, the glow plug had both heat and a sparking that was so beautiful. Put it all together and it all works so nice now... just like new. I will test drive more tonite just to be sure. Should be perfect.

Bill

Here's the culprit.

[raygreenwood]

Cool!

I have done so much troubleshooting over the years that I could not even remember if the system would keep pumping fuel when it had no spark. The spark and glow plug section get power and ground from the same place.

But keep an eye out. If its not "BURNING"...it :SHOULD" quit pumping fuel. Ray

[Pepperbilly]

[Pepperbilly]

As long as we are still talking about the gas heater, I want to understand more about fuel delivery with the engine off. Say using the timer on the dash, how is a constant supply of fuel delivered? I am not aware that the main fuel pump up front runs when in this mode. Won't the fuel supply eventually run out? Never have fully understood this...

Bill

[raygreenwood]

[Pepperbilly]

Hey thanks Ray. Now I know everything about this BA 4 system

Bill

[Pepperbilly]

Another problem I had to deal with was repairing the passenger side outside rear view mirror. I think the repair I did will work.

Using JB weld I practiced on a spare bolt that I ground the threads off of. After 24 hours of letting the weld set I cut new threads with a die. Tightened a nut and added pressure and it held.

So I did the same to the mirror I am using and after attaching to the door, it held with some torque. I am hopeful this will hold over the long run. Nothing like using the stock mirror

Bill

[titan3c]

Wow------what a beautifull Type 412. Love the color. I'm greatfull for all the information ypu an Ray presented in your discussion. Ill be reinstalling my heater soon. Ive had it out for sometime now. The only thing left that needs to be tested is the blower moter. Sitting the points and testing the condensers is beyond my capibilities so i will need help on that. Bob

[Pepperbilly]

[titan3c]

On another subject----just wondering if during your work on your car if you ever had to replace the seals on the fixed side windows?

[Pepperbilly]

Hey Bob,

I did not remove or replace any seals or windows. I know the seals are original and old but the car had been garaged for most of it’s life so I left them alone. I wanted to keep all the bright work. Getting new seals with the bright work channels was impossible so the decision was made to leave well enough alone. My body and paint shop used a trick where they rolled the edges of the seals back during prep and painting. I was lucky in that I had no corrosion or rust in any of the window areas. I did remove the inside and outside front window scraper trims. That was easy. I will keep treating the rubber with a protectant/rejuvenator from time to time. I am very happy with my decision.

Bill

[Pepperbilly]

Problems keep rearing their ugly heads but not really bad ones… they just become smaller.

The heating system now. Driving around in colder weather the wagon was getting somewhat warm but not like I remembered from years ago. The gas heater is working flawlessly but the volume of heat was not. Hmmm…. With the gas heater switched off virtually no heat was flowing into the cabin. Ok, seems like a restriction somewhere.

I had a suspicion about the 2 heater control flapper boxes. The ones that are attached to the lever control cables. The cables were fastened and adjusted like they should be. I then found with the heater turned on and engine running a large amount of hot air exiting thru the bypass. This was even with the regulators in the fully on position. I disconnected the cables on both of them and no matter how I regulated them by hand there was still a huge amount of hot air bypass to the ground! There’s the problem!

Apparently the internal flapper valves are not working as designed… both of them equally so. Now I am wondering if they can be repaired or am I having to find NOS ones? Anybody ever run across this. The type 4 boxes are unique to these cars is what it looks like.

Bill

[raygreenwood]

[Pepperbilly]

Ray,

I think you are exactly right. The regulator box hinges and levers are not rusted and move freely. So looks like whatever seal or gasket was in there is gone. Hopefully the fix you have presented is doable.

Bill

[raygreenwood]

I have a how to somewhere about doing the flaps under the dash. It should be very similar.

The problem I found with resealing a flap that hinges from one side is that it is not as simple as putting a layer of sealing material across the whole flap. That causes a pinch point in the back near the flap hinge and does not allow the flap to fully close.

The solution...for the under dash flaps...was to cut a small disc of sealing foam the exact diameter of the tube. Then close the flap all the way. Put glue on the disc and drop it into the tube exactly centered and adhere it to the flap.

This creates a sealing "plug"

In this way the flap is known to close all the way but any air that tries to blow past the crack gets stopped by the plug. Ray

[Pepperbilly]

[Pepperbilly]

I want proper heat! I coaxed myself into the cold garage today to tackle the problem…

AH HA! Found and fixed the problem and turns out I was the Villian. In the process learned all about these flapper valves.

First of all there is a seal on the face of the flappers. Looks to me it is an asbestos seal bonded to the face. Makes perfect sense because of the heat involved here. Both my boxes were just fine. See 2 photos below.

This photo shows the pass side box removed. Notice the connecting tube still in place. This is where the problem was. I had assembled that tube too deep into the flapper box and thus jammed the flapper from fully moving . I did it to both boxes. So, it was jammed towards the closed bypass position with just a little heat making it to the cabin.

So, now how this box really functions…. The box has 2 flappers and in between them is a pressure relief spring system. I think it is designed this way to allow less pressure on the hand lever cables when you pull hard to the full open or on position. The middle spring feature saves the cables over the long run because the flapper valves are “cushioned”. The next 2 photos show the 2 flappers.

I reassembled the driver’s side and took care not to push the box too far onto the connecting tube. Connected and adjusted the cable. Works like the factory intended it to. This was a very satisfying “solve the problem” afternoon.

Bill