| Author |
Message |
Big Bull Shooter
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2018
Posts: 526
Location: Canadian Rockies
|
 Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2023 12:46 pm Post subject: Seat Upholstery Prep Questions 1969 Beetle |
 |
|
I'm about ready to do a complete seat upholstery on my 1969 Beetle. The original seat covers are deteriorating from age, and the original coconut fibre pads are crumbling.
I have the TMI basket weave seat upholstery, foam padding for each seat, as well as the highback headrest. Canvas, adhesive, hog ring pliers, hog rings, and 3 rolls of sisal. My long needle for the buttons is on order, and I'll try and bum a few dry cleaning bags this afternoon.
After watching a lot of videos,(and searching here), I still haven't seen any where they use the foam seat pads for the entire project. The most informative videos are from classicvwbugs.com, however they used the coconut fibre pads. My sisal is labelled as spring cover padding, so I am planning to hog ring that to the spring assemblies, and maybe not use the canvas. I then plan to adhere the foam to the sisal. If anyone else has gone this same route, did you add felt to the top side of the foam? Lots of videos show putting felt over the entire seat before slipping on the cover, but they weren't using the foam seat pads. I don't have any felt, and I'm not sure if it is necessary for my application.
If any of you have used these same products, any tips and advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks
_________________
Where would this hobby be if no one shipped parts.
crukab
Feb. 11, 2021
Smokey says.... only you can prevent Bug fires!
zerotofifty
May 16, 2023 |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
busman78
Samba Member
Joined: August 17, 2004
Posts: 4656
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2023 1:32 pm Post subject: Re: Seat Upholstery Prep Questions 1969 Bettle |
|
|
I put burlap/canvas or a cheap thin carpet over the springs, then jute (sisal), then foam then another layer of jute (sisal), course I do not use the preformed foam, just cut your own shape high density foam, wrap over the spring and pull the cover on. Comfy. I do not glue any of it, hog rings when needed and have never needed a plastic bag to slip the covers on, just turn them inside out and work them on.
With yours I would put canvas over the spring before the sisal, then the foam. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
viiking
Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2013
Posts: 3131
Location: Sydney Australia
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2023 1:56 pm Post subject: Re: Seat Upholstery Prep Questions 1969 Bettle |
|
|
I did not use hog rings. I find them too “agricultural” and if poorly installed a source of puncture to the upholstery.
I sewed all my canvas/sisal/burlap/hessian with cord and a large curved needle from a sewing store.
Sure it takes longer but you can get a much more even stretch on the material and in my opinion a more robust job.
_________________
1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Big Bull Shooter
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2018
Posts: 526
Location: Canadian Rockies
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2023 3:13 pm Post subject: Re: Seat Upholstery Prep Questions 1969 Bettle |
|
|
| busman78 wrote: |
I put burlap/canvas or a cheap thin carpet over the springs, then jute (sisal), then foam then another layer of jute (sisal), course I do not use the preformed foam, just cut your own shape high density foam, wrap over the spring and pull the cover on. Comfy. I do not glue any of it, hog rings when needed and have never needed a plastic bag to slip the covers on, just turn them inside out and work them on.
With yours I would put canvas over the spring before the sisal, then the foam. |
Thanks, busman78. I think I will put the canvas on first.
_________________
Where would this hobby be if no one shipped parts.
crukab
Feb. 11, 2021
Smokey says.... only you can prevent Bug fires!
zerotofifty
May 16, 2023 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Big Bull Shooter
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2018
Posts: 526
Location: Canadian Rockies
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2023 3:16 pm Post subject: Re: Seat Upholstery Prep Questions 1969 Bettle |
|
|
| viiking wrote: |
I did not use hog rings. I find them too “agricultural” and if poorly installed a source of puncture to the upholstery.
I sewed all my canvas/sisal/burlap/hessian with cord and a large curved needle from a sewing store.
Sure it takes longer but you can get a much more even stretch on the material and in my opinion a more robust job. |
That is an option. Did you wrap the material over the edge of the spring assembly before sewing? What is hessian? Thanks.
_________________
Where would this hobby be if no one shipped parts.
crukab
Feb. 11, 2021
Smokey says.... only you can prevent Bug fires!
zerotofifty
May 16, 2023 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
viiking
Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2013
Posts: 3131
Location: Sydney Australia
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2023 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: Seat Upholstery Prep Questions 1969 Bettle |
|
|
| Big Bull Shooter wrote: |
| viiking wrote: |
I did not use hog rings. I find them too “agricultural” and if poorly installed a source of puncture to the upholstery.
I sewed all my canvas/sisal/burlap/hessian with cord and a large curved needle from a sewing store.
Sure it takes longer but you can get a much more even stretch on the material and in my opinion a more robust job. |
That is an option. Did you wrap the material over the edge of the spring assembly before sewing? What is hessian? Thanks. |
Yes, I wrapped the material over the edge. You don't have to go around the frame with the cord (but you can if you want to) but you can stitch the tucked under bit onto the horizontal seat part. As the seat springs get covered with foam or coconut fibre, the stitches will not be felt.
Hessian is burlap. It is a term used in many countries. Burlap seems to be the term used in North America. Crocus is another identical term. It is made from the jute plant as is sisal. I just used sisal/burlap/hessian as synonyms to cover all the words that seem to be used here on the SAMBA to say the same basic thing.
_________________
1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
OldSchoolVW's 
Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2020
Posts: 1398
Location: San Diego
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2023 8:01 pm Post subject: Re: Seat Upholstery Prep Questions 1969 Bettle |
|
|
I covered my springs with burlap and secured it to the perimeter of the frame with zip ties. I too was concerned that the hog rings might poke through the cover at some point. Zip ties worked great.
WW's felt has a smooth fabric cover. I put the felt on because it made for nicely rounded edges and pretty much eliminated any lumps/bumps under the cover.
_________________
Tom
"Following distance is proportional to IQ."
"If you don't do it this year, you'll be one year older when you do." Warren Miller
"Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing." Wernher von Braun
'63 Beetle Sedan
'69 Beetle Sunroof
'70 Beetle Sedan
'73 Type 3 Fastback |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Big Bull Shooter
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2018
Posts: 526
Location: Canadian Rockies
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 8:59 am Post subject: Re: Seat Upholstery Prep Questions 1969 Bettle |
|
|
Thank you for the info, viiking!
OldSchoolVW's, the zip ties and the felt looks like it worked well. Nice bug and color, 69?
I started with disassembly of the front passenger seat. Getting the seat release knob off did not go well, and I ended up breaking it. I have a better plan to get the driver's side off, as it's on there good. The rest of the tear down went well, but I hadn't planned on the seat back paperboard being toast. I can feel that the driver's seat is the same way. I was able to tape it back together for a template, in case I can find something suitable to make new ones, otherwise I'll have to order a couple.
The coconut fibre pads were in better shape than I could have imagined.
I was also able to salvage the buttons and wire that go through the seat back.
_________________
Where would this hobby be if no one shipped parts.
crukab
Feb. 11, 2021
Smokey says.... only you can prevent Bug fires!
zerotofifty
May 16, 2023 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
baldessariclan
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2016
Posts: 2024
Location: Wichita, KS
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:47 am Post subject: Re: Seat Upholstery Prep Questions 1969 Bettle |
|
|
Recommend you measure and compare the lengths of the lower seat cover skirts on the original upholstery vs the new TMI upholstery. IIRC, the TMI covers sometimes have skirts which are about an inch or so longer than the original covers, which can lead to some potential installation and fitting issues. I definitely had this issue with the new lower rear seat cover from TMI, when I was trying to install it few years ago.
The good news is that it's usually not too hard to shorten the skirts on the new TMI covers -- just measure, trim, and then re-sew the lower lap edges to suit.
Oh, and also note that if the new foam seat pads are significantly thicker or thinner than the original seat pads, this can potentially lead to some fitment issues as well. Just something to keep an eye on / consider ahead of time...
_________________
1971 Standard Beetle — fairly stock / driver
baldessariclan -- often in error, never in doubt... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mug Bug
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2021
Posts: 15
Location: Pinetop, AZ
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:56 am Post subject: Re: Seat Upholstery Prep Questions 1969 Bettle |
|
|
| Thank you for posting this... have a 70 bug and the seats will be my summer project! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
OldSchoolVW's
Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2020
Posts: 1398
Location: San Diego
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: Seat Upholstery Prep Questions 1969 Bettle |
|
|
| Big Bull Shooter wrote: |
Thank you for the info, viiking!
OldSchoolVW's, the zip ties and the felt looks like it worked well. Nice bug and color, 69?
The rest of the tear down went well, but I hadn't planned on the seat back paperboard being toast. I can feel that the driver's seat is the same way. I was able to tape it back together for a template, in case I can find something suitable to make new ones, otherwise I'll have to order a couple.
The coconut fibre pads were in better shape than I could have imagined.
I was also able to salvage the buttons and wire that go through the seat back.
|
Thanks! Yes it's a '69. 
Have a good look at the vertical bars supporting the back of the springs on the seat backs. They are just spot welded on at the factory and both were broken on my driver seat back. There's a good chance they'll tear through the paperboard backing and upholstery when you lean back against it. I had mind welded back in place ... good for at least another 50 years.
I just ordered the paperboard backing from WW (I'm sure cip1 has them too). Since they were made to measure they just slipped in ... done. Didn't have to hassle with getting suitable material and making new ones. Pre-made one's are pretty inexpensive.
Your old horsehair/coconut fiber pads are in really nice shape! Most of the time they're pretty shredded or just disintegrate during removal.
Great that you were able to salvage the buttons! They are very hard to find and are pretty pricey when you do find them.
_________________
Tom
"Following distance is proportional to IQ."
"If you don't do it this year, you'll be one year older when you do." Warren Miller
"Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing." Wernher von Braun
'63 Beetle Sedan
'69 Beetle Sunroof
'70 Beetle Sedan
'73 Type 3 Fastback |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Big Bull Shooter
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2018
Posts: 526
Location: Canadian Rockies
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 4:24 pm Post subject: Re: Seat Upholstery Prep Questions 1969 Bettle |
|
|
| OldSchoolVW's wrote: |
| Big Bull Shooter wrote: |
Thank you for the info, viiking!
OldSchoolVW's, the zip ties and the felt looks like it worked well. Nice bug and color, 69?
The rest of the tear down went well, but I hadn't planned on the seat back paperboard being toast. I can feel that the driver's seat is the same way. I was able to tape it back together for a template, in case I can find something suitable to make new ones, otherwise I'll have to order a couple.
The coconut fibre pads were in better shape than I could have imagined.
I was also able to salvage the buttons and wire that go through the seat back.
|
Thanks! Yes it's a '69.
Have a good look at the vertical bars supporting the back of the springs on the seat backs. They are just spot welded on at the factory and both were broken on my driver seat back. There's a good chance they'll tear through the paperboard backing and upholstery when you lean back against it. I had mind welded back in place ... good for at least another 50 years.
I just ordered the paperboard backing from WW (I'm sure cip1 has them too). Since they were made to measure they just slipped in ... done. Didn't have to hassle with getting suitable material and making new ones. Pre-made one's are pretty inexpensive.
Your old horsehair/coconut fiber pads are in really nice shape! Most of the time they're pretty shredded or just disintegrate during removal.
Great that you were able to salvage the buttons! They are very hard to find and are pretty pricey when you do find them. |
I suspect that the welds are going to be broken in the driver seat back, as I can feel them clunk from time to time. The passenger seat is fine.
I just ordered the WW backings from Concept1 in Calgary, and should have them sometime next week. I did get some 1/8 inch masonite, and may try to make my own, but I think it will be too thick.
You have good taste in cars!
_________________
Where would this hobby be if no one shipped parts.
crukab
Feb. 11, 2021
Smokey says.... only you can prevent Bug fires!
zerotofifty
May 16, 2023 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
viiking
Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2013
Posts: 3131
Location: Sydney Australia
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: Seat Upholstery Prep Questions 1969 Bettle |
|
|
Definitely make your own seat backing. The paper/cardboard is just too flimsy. I used 3mm masonite which I guess is 1/8" in the non-metric world.
I used the cardboard to make a pattern on the masonite and then just cut it out with a jigsaw. Holes have to line up as do the screw holes.
I then clamped the cut piece on the OUTSIDE of the frame to give it its curvilinear shape. I then wet the masonite very well a half dozen times over a couple of days and then repeated. When the clamps were released it was the correct shape.
It was then installed on the INSIDE of the frame and fitted perfectly.
Here's some shots I took during the refurb.
First photo of finished masonite backer. Forget it is a low back. We still had low backs in Australia in 68.
Second photo is the sewn hessian. It had a pattern and was cheap.
Third photo showed felt which was spray glued on
Fourth photo with some polyester Dacron to soften the back of the seat where the masonite was.
_________________
1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tim Donahoe
Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012
Posts: 11786
Location: Redding, CA
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 11:58 pm Post subject: Re: Seat Upholstery Prep Questions 1969 Bettle |
|
|
I used the WW seat backing, and they were good quality, fit perfectly, and I never had an issue with them.
The TMI foam is often thicker than the original horsehair (coconut fiber), so I wouldn't start trimming any skirts until you try the covers, first.
Be sure to cover the seats with a thin plastic cover (like the kind they dry cleaners use to cover clothing that they have cleaned), before installing the covers. This makes it easy to slide the covers down. TMI covers have a way of gripping the foam or horsehair, but using a thin plastic bag first will eliminate the "grab".
Tim
_________________
Let's do the Time Warp again!
Richard O'Brien |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
runamoc
Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2006
Posts: 6090
Location: 37.5N 77.1W
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2023 6:40 am Post subject: Re: Seat Upholstery Prep Questions 1969 Bettle |
|
|
I use this 'trick' to compress the springs, makes it easier to put the bottom seat cover on.
_________________
Daily driver: '69 Baja owned 45 yrs - Plan B: '72 Ghia
Yard Art: 2 Sandrails
Outback: '69 Ghia - '68,'69,'70,'72 Beetle - '84 Scirocco, GTI - Pair of '02 Golfs- '80 Rabbit Diesel
VW Wiring = It's just wires |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
OldSchoolVW's
Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2020
Posts: 1398
Location: San Diego
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2023 11:18 am Post subject: Re: Seat Upholstery Prep Questions 1969 Bettle |
|
|
| runamoc wrote: |
I use this 'trick' to compress the springs, makes it easier to put the bottom seat cover on.
|
Great idea!! I really wish I'd had those clamps and thought of this 3 months ago ... especially for doing the rear seat. Thanks for posting this tip! Looking forward to using it when I acquire another bug.
_________________
Tom
"Following distance is proportional to IQ."
"If you don't do it this year, you'll be one year older when you do." Warren Miller
"Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing." Wernher von Braun
'63 Beetle Sedan
'69 Beetle Sunroof
'70 Beetle Sedan
'73 Type 3 Fastback |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
OldSchoolVW's
Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2020
Posts: 1398
Location: San Diego
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2023 11:27 am Post subject: Re: Seat Upholstery Prep Questions 1969 Bettle |
|
|
| Tim Donahoe wrote: |
I used the WW seat backing, and they were good quality, fit perfectly, and I never had an issue with them.
Tim |
I agree with Tim. They're a pretty dense material and should hold up very well.
viiking's look great and should be bulletproof. I just didn't have the patience to go the fabrication route.
_________________
Tom
"Following distance is proportional to IQ."
"If you don't do it this year, you'll be one year older when you do." Warren Miller
"Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing." Wernher von Braun
'63 Beetle Sedan
'69 Beetle Sunroof
'70 Beetle Sedan
'73 Type 3 Fastback |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Big Bull Shooter
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2018
Posts: 526
Location: Canadian Rockies
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2023 1:25 pm Post subject: Re: Seat Upholstery Prep Questions 1969 Bettle |
|
|
| baldessariclan wrote: |
Recommend you measure and compare the lengths of the lower seat cover skirts on the original upholstery vs the new TMI upholstery. IIRC, the TMI covers sometimes have skirts which are about an inch or so longer than the original covers, which can lead to some potential installation and fitting issues. I definitely had this issue with the new lower rear seat cover from TMI, when I was trying to install it few years ago.
The good news is that it's usually not too hard to shorten the skirts on the new TMI covers -- just measure, trim, and then re-sew the lower lap edges to suit.
Oh, and also note that if the new foam seat pads are significantly thicker or thinner than the original seat pads, this can potentially lead to some fitment issues as well. Just something to keep an eye on / consider ahead of time... |
Thank you for the warning. I did check, and confirm that the new covers are 3/4" longer on the front skirting. I might just build up the seat padding a bit to compensate.
_________________
Where would this hobby be if no one shipped parts.
crukab
Feb. 11, 2021
Smokey says.... only you can prevent Bug fires!
zerotofifty
May 16, 2023 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Big Bull Shooter
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2018
Posts: 526
Location: Canadian Rockies
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2023 1:35 pm Post subject: Re: Seat Upholstery Prep Questions 1969 Bettle |
|
|
| viiking wrote: |
Definitely make your own seat backing. The paper/cardboard is just too flimsy. I used 3mm masonite which I guess is 1/8" in the non-metric world.
I used the cardboard to make a pattern on the masonite and then just cut it out with a jigsaw. Holes have to line up as do the screw holes.
I then clamped the cut piece on the OUTSIDE of the frame to give it its curvilinear shape. I then wet the masonite very well a half dozen times over a couple of days and then repeated. When the clamps were released it was the correct shape.
It was then installed on the INSIDE of the frame and fitted perfectly.
Here's some shots I took during the refurb.
First photo of finished masonite backer. Forget it is a low back. We still had low backs in Australia in 68.
Second photo is the sewn hessian. It had a pattern and was cheap.
Third photo showed felt which was spray glued on
Fourth photo with some polyester Dacron to soften the back of the seat where the masonite was.
|
While I wait for the WW paperboards to arrive, I'm going to try and make some out of masonite, and yes it is 3mm. The masonite will definitely need water to make it retain that curve. I like the idea of the Dacron on the back!
_________________
Where would this hobby be if no one shipped parts.
crukab
Feb. 11, 2021
Smokey says.... only you can prevent Bug fires!
zerotofifty
May 16, 2023 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Big Bull Shooter
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2018
Posts: 526
Location: Canadian Rockies
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2023 6:13 pm Post subject: Re: Seat Upholstery Prep Questions 1969 Bettle |
|
|
So I've been puttering away on the seats, and got the back seat bottom as well as the passenger seat bottom done. They turned out really well, but I've run into a glitch with the driver's seat back spring assembly. There are 3 broken welds, and one broken spring. I'm going to try and find a replacement on nearby FaceBook groups, rather than have 4 repairs on it. I thought that I could get the other seat release knob off without damage, but failed. I'm sure I could get it the third time! They sure weren't meant to come off!
I'm hoping to get the backing and more sisal this week to move forward.
_________________
Where would this hobby be if no one shipped parts.
crukab
Feb. 11, 2021
Smokey says.... only you can prevent Bug fires!
zerotofifty
May 16, 2023 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
