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Busstom Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014 Posts: 3855 Location: San Jose, CA
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Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2024 11:21 am Post subject: Re: 944 IRS conversion |
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oprn wrote: |
Ya, I was just looking at a couple parts break downs and it looks like that part is for the newer aluminum trailing arms. It's not listed for my '83 but it is for the '86 I got the trailing arms from. |
Thanks for helping resolve this mystery, it's been gnawing at me for several weeks. Information about these components isn't exactly easy to come by around the interwebs, it's often fragmented and, as you know, often limited to what individual exposure each of us gets to it in our experience/projects. And no one vendor that I've found yet delves deeply into the subject to discuss all of the delivered combinations and configurations over the years to help sort it out. _________________ My name's Steve and it's pronounced "Bust 'em" (cuz people think I'm Tom) 😏 |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12757 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2024 7:24 am Post subject: Re: 944 IRS conversion |
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Yes those clips/guards are just a friction fit in the aluminum trailing arms. I can't find any discussions on them so I will try without and see.
Next problem for me is the left E brake cable pushes in just fine, the right one... not so much. Poke around, just hits something and won't go. Cut an inspection hole and one of the tubes has broken loose.
Now to push it back down in place and weld it.
Meanwhile the brake handle shaft rolls off the rear seat area, down the hole and forward into the tunnel! Fishing time! Tried a magnet taped to the brake cable, no joy, must be the wrong bait! Pulled the gear shift out, found the missing brake lever shaft, found more things that need attention!
There is just no end to these projects! _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12757 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2024 6:58 am Post subject: Re: 944 IRS conversion |
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Continuing to sort out the E brake, before cutting them off at the handle I used vice grips to simulate what was going to happen when the cables were shortened and in place. It took several pulls on the handle and re-positioning of the vice grips to suck up the slack in the cable and get the outer sheath in position on the control arm. When it was finally there and bottomed out there was not much stroke left on the brake handle before everything came to a stop.
Some looking around, a cup of tea to reflect and the problem became clear. The spring on the Bus cable, even though I shortened it to match the 944 spring length, is wound from a much larger diameter wire. Looking through the CV joint end of the control arm I could see the spring was all bunched up and nearly into a coil bind.
Needs to be shorter yet! This is how much the spring had to be compressed before the outer sheath seated into the control arm.
Shortened the spring some more.
Now I only have to pull it up this far for the sheath to seat properly.
Much better! Now I went ahead and cut the cables to length, put the old adjuster ends back on, tightened the set screws on the cable ends and we are in business! Two clicks off bottom on the handle and we have brakes! _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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Busstom Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014 Posts: 3855 Location: San Jose, CA
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Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2024 12:36 pm Post subject: Re: 944 IRS conversion |
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Nice!
"old adjuster ends?" "set screws?" Do you have any pics of this? Are these pieces that enable you to make custom-length cables? I must see. _________________ My name's Steve and it's pronounced "Bust 'em" (cuz people think I'm Tom) 😏 |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12757 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2024 5:44 am Post subject: Re: 944 IRS conversion |
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Yes this setup came on the Buggy and I am re-using it. EMPI from the mid '70's perhaps... every Buggy with a shortened pan got something similar to shorten the E brake cables.
Yes I do need to shorten the cable another 1/2" to get more adjustment back and I will do that at a later date.
_________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12757 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2024 6:21 am Post subject: Re: 944 IRS conversion |
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Time to rebuild the calipers. The first one went well.
The second one... not so much! The piston is stuck in the cylinder. Won't pry out, won't blow out with 120 psi of air pressure. Rigged up a farmer style puller but it's still solid.
Next thing to try is to make up a fitting so I can pump grease into the back of the piston with a grease gun. Along with the puller maybe... _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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Busstom Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014 Posts: 3855 Location: San Jose, CA
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2024 10:21 am Post subject: Re: 944 IRS conversion |
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oprn wrote: |
Yes this setup came on the Buggy and I am re-using it. EMPI from the mid '70's perhaps... every Buggy with a shortened pan got something similar to shorten the E brake cables. |
Ahhh, yes, those. Just looking at those in the past, I never had any confidence in them, but since you've been running them for years and you're reusing them suggests they WORK. I will give them a whirl on my project, thanks. _________________ My name's Steve and it's pronounced "Bust 'em" (cuz people think I'm Tom) 😏 |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12757 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2024 11:09 am Post subject: Re: 944 IRS conversion |
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I share your trepidation about them but like the wheel adaptors that came on this car, it's hard to make a case against them having been on this thing since '76! _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12757 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2024 4:55 pm Post subject: Re: 944 IRS conversion |
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This is whole scramble is the result of the dust seal failing and water getting in next to the piston. Take note all of you that are running calipers that don't have dust seals on the pistons...
Success! I let the thing soak overnight with penetrating oil. I drive the piston in further, then sand blasted the exposed rust ridge off the inside of the cylinder, pulled it back up with the puller until it stopped. Did this 3 times and out it came!
Now to clean them up.
Polished up ok.
Made a wood plug for the cylinder.
Now I can sand blast the seal area without damaging the cylinder.
_________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12757 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2024 7:17 pm Post subject: Re: 944 IRS conversion |
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Moving on to the brake lines, initial survey tells me that the left side only requires a repositioning of the existing brake lines and remounting of the original tee... if I use this flex line.
Problem is, the tee is machined to take a double flare brake line and this hose end is flat - square. The thread is the same but the chances of getting a seal are poor in my view.
Here is what I am trying. Shape the end as if it were a double flare and see what happens.
_________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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Busstom Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014 Posts: 3855 Location: San Jose, CA
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Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2024 9:06 pm Post subject: Re: 944 IRS conversion |
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That looks good and should work. One minor correction, that's bubble flare, so I think the angle you're after on that tip is ~35°. _________________ My name's Steve and it's pronounced "Bust 'em" (cuz people think I'm Tom) 😏 |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12757 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2024 3:23 pm Post subject: Re: 944 IRS conversion |
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Thanks, I was guessing 33*. Seems to be holding pressure.
I got lucky, just re-bent the stock lines by hand and it all fits. Made/moved a couple brackets and she's all buttoned up.
_________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12757 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2024 7:24 pm Post subject: Re: 944 IRS conversion |
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Brakes are bled. Peddle is 1/2 way down before it hits resistance. I expected something like that but not quite so much. Investigation shows that the left rear caliper piston wants to retract a bit. I suppose the piston seal and dust boot are the culprits here. A little stiff and bouncing back. The other 3 calipers are not doing that.
So... undecided... I know what the recommendation will be... residual valve. Ya... but... it chaffs a bit thinking about adding something to the system that will make the brakes drag all the time. Seems counter productive. Not unlike my school buddy who used to drive his Honda 50 around town with both feet dragging to see how fast he could wear out a pair of sneakers!
I think I will leave it as is until I drive it a bit and see if it loosens up.
Next is the shocks. _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12757 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: 944 IRS conversion |
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The learning about residual valves is happening in this thread.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=10190195#10190195 _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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slalombuggy Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2010 Posts: 9147 Location: Canada
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Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 1:41 pm Post subject: Re: 944 IRS conversion |
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If the caliper that's acting up is the one you used penetrating fluid on the seal is probably swollen and won't ever return to normal. You cannot use ANY petroleum based products around brake system rubber, it totally destroys it.
When I worked in automotive I had to replace entire brake systems in 2 vehicles. From the master cylinder, all hoses, caliper, cylinders propositioning valve and flushed the steel lines out with a couple gallons of brake clean. All because the owners topped the master off with power steering fluid. |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12757 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 2:48 pm Post subject: Re: 944 IRS conversion |
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It is actually but I cleaned, sand blasted and polished the piston and cylinder after and put a new seal kit in it. The new seal did feel stiff but no more so than the other side. _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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tzepesh Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2003 Posts: 735 Location: Romania
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Posted: Thu Feb 29, 2024 5:19 am Post subject: Re: 944 IRS conversion |
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Don't pull the pistons like that again. That lip breaks very easily, don't ask me how I know... Use compressed air instead, first with some limiting spacer on the inside, not to blow the piston like a bullet when it frees up. _________________ '74 1303S, L98B Viperngrun (extra glitter), German Look
'64 1200, Sea Blue, under restoration |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12757 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Thu Feb 29, 2024 8:12 am Post subject: Re: 944 IRS conversion |
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tzepesh wrote: |
Don't pull the pistons like that again. That lip breaks very easily, don't ask me how I know... Use compressed air instead, first with some limiting spacer on the inside, not to blow the piston like a bullet when it frees up. |
Oh ya! That was my first try but 120 psi did not move it at all! Not even close! Thanks for the suggestion though... _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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Dan_Lockwood Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2023 Posts: 188 Location: Clare MI
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Posted: Thu Feb 29, 2024 9:57 am Post subject: Re: 944 IRS conversion |
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Adapt the brake line hole over to allow a Zerk fitting to be installed. Then use your hand pump grease gun to pump out the piston. They can produce from 2k psi on up, depending on the grease gun.
The nice thing about the grease gun method is that when the piston comes out, it oozes out rather than shoots out from the compress air behind it. Much safer and produces much more pressure force.
The same type of trick can be used on smaller bearings pressed into a blind hole. It may be difficult to get a puller in and get it out. Instead, pack grease down inside the blind hole and under the bearing, full... Then take a round piece of wood sanded down to fit the ID of the bearing. Pack just a bit more grease in the hole and then put the wood shaft into the hole and hit it with a good size BFH. It will drive the bearing out with hydraulic pressure.
Sorry, a bit off topic, but may be relevant to someone sometime...
Dan |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12757 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Thu Feb 29, 2024 5:12 pm Post subject: Re: 944 IRS conversion |
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oprn wrote: |
The second one... not so much! The piston is stuck in the cylinder. Won't pry out, won't blow out with 120 psi of air pressure. Rigged up a farmer style puller but it's still solid.
Next thing to try is to make up a fitting so I can pump grease into the back of the piston with a grease gun. Along with the puller maybe... |
The answer to both comments is found in a previous post... if you read that far back...
Ok you didn't, both of you missed it, no harm done, all good!
Yes as you can see Dan, that was my next thought but after sleeping on it I realized that the real problem was the ring of rust on the exposed side of the piston. If I continued to force it then as tzepesh said I would brake the lip off.
That was when I decided to drive the piston back to expose the lip and sand blast the rust ring off. That in the end freed it up enough that the piston pulled out after a couple of push pull cycles without further damage. I didn't have to resort to the grease gun after all but yes it was in the back of my mind. _________________ We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age) |
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