| Author |
Message |
jpaull
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005
Posts: 3639
Location: Paradise, Ca
|
 Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 2:24 am Post subject: Miller Ignition USA Made CDI for $150 |
 |
|
Miller Ignition has a nice CDI box that is Made in the USA and only $149 https://millerignition.com/
Posting this thread for others to post experience on performance, how its working in their car, compatibility, etc. I dont have time to get a engine back in my bug at the moment, so this thread is to have a placeholder to gather others feedback. At $150, this is pretty nice upgrade for anyone that is running pertronix/points.
To date its Points/Pertronix triggered only, but Jon Miller has said that his Mag Pickup addition is coming soon.
This box has alot of analog aspects, but some digital aspects too. It uses Two 2.2uF capacitors, IGBT's, and Mosfets. Twice/4x the capacitance of of other boxes, and fast enough "switching speed" to multi spark to redline.
My impression, is that it gives more snap, and has more potential then any of the vintage performance boxes out there. It also does it with ease, cool to the touch, even after running coils on it that have no business near a street car.
A typical Bosch blue and points spark:
More Bosch Orange,errr I mean Bosch blue and points:
A Magnaspark dist/coil combo:
Magnaspark is a nice improvement over stock
Can see it here too:
Here is the Miller CDI ignition with a MSD Blaster SS coil. The miller box really likes the Blaster SS, its a great match. I tried 8 different coils of all different "potentials" and the Blaster SS gives the most snap.
Here you can see a video of the 2 ignitions running side by side:
https://youtu.be/FPS8FkWMU3s
If you give one a try, post how your car runs
I started a feedback thread for him here as well:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=10043503#10043503 |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Lingwendil
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009
Posts: 3999
Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 6:34 am Post subject: Re: Miller Ignition USA Made CDI for $150 |
|
|
Nice, always good to see quality alternatives. IS the schematic publicly available, or is the info about the alternatives going off of what was provided by the manufacturer? Are they sealed/potted, or open and exposed components inside?
I'd be curious to see what kind of inverter and trigger circuitry it uses. Most commercial CDI units are clones of the MSD or Delta stuff to some degree with changes to the pickup and trigger circuitry.
_________________
73 super beetle thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649622 Back on the Road!
Modify your Kadrons for SVDA http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8115884#8115884
Cast iron VJU4BR8 SVDA reference thread- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
Need replacement filters for original Kadron aircleaners? WIX #42087 is a perfect fit, as is Napa Gold #2087! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fred Winterburn
Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2013
Posts: 423
Location: Ripley Ontario Canada
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 7:14 am Post subject: Re: Miller Ignition USA Made CDI for $150 |
|
|
Jon’s CDI is based on recently expired patent EP1298320A2
="Lingwendil"]Nice, always good to see quality alternatives. IS the sche matic publicly available, or is the info about the alternatives going off of what was provided by the manufacturer? Are they sealed/potted, or open and exposed components inside?
I'd be curious to see what kind of inverter and trigger circuitry it uses. Most commercial CDI units are clones of the MSD or Delta stuff to some degree with changes to the pickup and trigger circuitry.[/quote] by |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lingwendil
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009
Posts: 3999
Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
67rustavenger
Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015
Posts: 10962
Location: Oregon
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2023 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: Miller Ignition USA Made CDI for $150 |
|
|
Hello!
For anyone that bought the Miller CDI box.
I asked Jon Miller to send me a simple wiring diagram via email.
The images below are the diagrams that Jon sent me.
I made a comment, regarding the connection to a 12V source. It needs to be connected to a switched power connection. Other wise, the CDI will be on all the time, if connected to the + side of the battery, as outlined in the wiring diagram image above..
Be very careful when installing the Miller CDI.
As I stated above, 12V should be to switched power.
Ground should be to the battery or a suitable good ground on the body of the car.
Do Not Connect any other auxiliary power drawing components to the #15 side of the coil. This includes the backup light circuit. Find a different power source for those.
Do Not Connect your Tach wiring to the #1 side of the coil.
OBSERVASIONS:
The Miller CDI weighs just about the same as a Crane Hi6n CDI box.
The supplied wiring is very limber.
The wiring can be damaged very easily. I noticed a hidden tear in the insulation last night, when I was removing the CDI box connections from my engine, during an engine removal project.
_________________
I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!
2003 Astrovan? GFYS again, Xevin!  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lingwendil
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009
Posts: 3999
Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PatJr
Samba Member
Joined: August 09, 2010
Posts: 253
Location: earth
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 5:49 am Post subject: Re: Miller Ignition USA Made CDI for $150 |
|
|
Nice!
I have an old Tiger on my bus and have been looking for a possible replacement if it goes 404 on me. I was looking at the Winterburn (http://www.capacitordischargeignition.com/) but that one costs some real dough to me.
_________________
#############################################
1970 Transporter a orange one
############################################# |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lingwendil
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009
Posts: 3999
Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 79411
Location: Sneaking up behind you
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 6:17 am Post subject: Re: Miller Ignition USA Made CDI for $150 |
|
|
Has anyone else run the Berg GB624?
I ran it until it started to miss so i replaced it with a Bosch German blue coil.
Later I found the tach wire was chafed and caused the ignition to ground. I fixed the wire but never reinstalled.
Berg has since discontinued it due to unable to source the parts.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fred Winterburn
Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2013
Posts: 423
Location: Ripley Ontario Canada
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 7:06 am Post subject: Re: Miller Ignition USA Made CDI for $150 |
|
|
Glenn, I’m pretty sure that’s an inductive switcher, not a CDI.
| Glenn wrote: |
Has anyone else run the Berg GB624?
I ran it until it started to miss so i replaced it with a Bosch German blue coil.
Later I found the tach wire was chafed and caused the ignition to ground. I fixed the wire but never reinstalled.
Berg has since discontinued it due to unable to source the parts. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 79411
Location: Sneaking up behind you
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 7:08 am Post subject: Re: Miller Ignition USA Made CDI for $150 |
|
|
| Fred Winterburn wrote: |
Glenn, I’m pretty sure that’s an inductive switcher, not a CDI.
| Glenn wrote: |
Has anyone else run the Berg GB624?
I ran it until it started to miss so i replaced it with a Bosch German blue coil.
Later I found the tach wire was chafed and caused the ignition to ground. I fixed the wire but never reinstalled.
Berg has since discontinued it due to unable to source the parts. |
|
Can you explain the difference? Please "dumb" it down for us non-engineers.
Thanks
(might break this into its own topic)
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fred Winterburn
Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2013
Posts: 423
Location: Ripley Ontario Canada
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 7:19 am Post subject: Re: Miller Ignition USA Made CDI for $150 |
|
|
The best Tigers were the first ones under the Delta brand name. They got worse when their sister company, TriStar began making them in huge quantities and then even worse after TriStar dissolved itself and sold out to Universal Corp. Even the original ‘good’ ones purposely truncated the spark which was a theme back then with some CDIs.
quote="Lingwendil"]Reminds me i have a Tiger 500 CDI that doesn't run, I think the SCR is bad. I need to dig it out and troubleshoot it.[/quote] |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lingwendil
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009
Posts: 3999
Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 7:31 am Post subject: Re: Miller Ignition USA Made CDI for $150 |
|
|
| Glenn wrote: |
| Fred Winterburn wrote: |
Glenn, I’m pretty sure that’s an inductive switcher, not a CDI.
| Glenn wrote: |
Has anyone else run the Berg GB624?
I ran it until it started to miss so i replaced it with a Bosch German blue coil.
Later I found the tach wire was chafed and caused the ignition to ground. I fixed the wire but never reinstalled.
Berg has since discontinued it due to unable to source the parts. |
|
Can you explain the difference? Please "dumb" it down for us non-engineers.
Thanks
(might break this into its own topic) |
It simply uses the points to switch a transistor- the transistor carries the coil current. Think Crane Fireball XR700, GM HEI, Ford TFI, VW TSZ-H, late Vanagon. All it does is fire the coil but doesn't change the voltage feeding the coil like a CDI. If I'm not mistaken the Berg "Stinger" was their true CDI.
The 624 kit was basically a Dodge/Mitsubishi OEM type coil, and If I'm not misaken an OEM type ignition module in a custom case with plug/harness. Good stuff though.
| Fred Winterburn wrote: |
The best Tigers were the first ones under the Delta brand name. They got worse when their sister company, TriStar began making them in huge quantities and then even worse after TriStar dissolved itself and sold out to Universal Corp. Even the original ‘good’ ones purposely truncated the spark which was a theme back then with some CDIs.
|
Mine says made by TriStar. Looks barely used. I'm looking forward to working on it and getting it going. It's likely something simple from prior experience working with Delta Mark 10 boxes, practically the same circuit looking at the schematic on the manual.
_________________
73 super beetle thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649622 Back on the Road!
Modify your Kadrons for SVDA http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8115884#8115884
Cast iron VJU4BR8 SVDA reference thread- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
Need replacement filters for original Kadron aircleaners? WIX #42087 is a perfect fit, as is Napa Gold #2087! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fred Winterburn
Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2013
Posts: 423
Location: Ripley Ontario Canada
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 8:09 am Post subject: Re: Miller Ignition USA Made CDI for $150 |
|
|
My father took TriStar to court over patent infringement and won,but TriStar only made one royalty payment and then reneged, presumably so he wouldn’t have the funds to take their sister company Delta to court.
| Lingwendil wrote: |
| Glenn wrote: |
| Fred Winterburn wrote: |
Glenn, I’m pretty sure that’s an inductive switcher, not a CDI.
| Glenn wrote: |
Has anyone else run the Berg GB624?
I ran it until it started to miss so i replaced it with a Bosch German blue coil.
Later I found the tach wire was chafed and caused the ignition to ground. I fixed the wire but never reinstalled.
Berg has since discontinued it due to unable to source the parts. |
|
Can you explain the difference? Please "dumb" it down for us non-engineers.
Thanks
(might break this into its own topic) |
It simply uses the points to switch a transistor- the transistor carries the coil current. Think Crane Fireball XR700, GM HEI, Ford TFI, VW TSZ-H, late Vanagon. All it does is fire the coil but doesn't change the voltage feeding the coil like a CDI. If I'm not mistaken the Berg "Stinger" was their true CDI.
The 624 kit was basically a Dodge/Mitsubishi OEM type coil, and If I'm not misaken an OEM type ignition module in a custom case with plug/harness. Good stuff though.
| Fred Winterburn wrote: |
The best Tigers were the first ones under the Delta brand name. They got worse when their sister company, TriStar began making them in huge quantities and then even worse after TriStar dissolved itself and sold out to Universal Corp. Even the original ‘good’ ones purposely truncated the spark which was a theme back then with some CDIs.
|
Mine says made by TriStar. Looks barely used. I'm looking forward to working on it and getting it going. It's likely something simple from prior experience working with Delta Mark 10 boxes, practically the same circuit looking at the schematic on the manual.
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jpaull
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005
Posts: 3639
Location: Paradise, Ca
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 8:43 pm Post subject: Re: Miller Ignition USA Made CDI for $150 |
|
|
| Lingwendil wrote: |
Nice, always good to see quality alternatives. IS the schematic publicly available, or is the info about the alternatives going off of what was provided by the manufacturer? Are they sealed/potted, or open and exposed components inside?
I'd be curious to see what kind of inverter and trigger circuitry it uses. Most commercial CDI units are clones of the MSD or Delta stuff to some degree with changes to the pickup and trigger circuitry. |
He has been very responsive via email. Im sure he can answer all those questions, send him a message here:
https://millerignition.com/pages/contact |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Millionmph
Samba Member
Joined: November 22, 2021
Posts: 373
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 10:28 pm Post subject: Re: Miller Ignition USA Made CDI for $150 |
|
|
| Hmmm, neat, Currently running the allison xr700 optical ignition and blue coil; the coil could use an upgrade to get some big spark but this is neat, wonder if it would work with the optical trigger on the allison box |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lingwendil
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009
Posts: 3999
Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fred Winterburn
Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2013
Posts: 423
Location: Ripley Ontario Canada
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2023 5:03 am Post subject: Re: Miller Ignition USA Made CDI for $150 |
|
|
I’ve corresponded with Jon. He contacted me a year and a half ago under the auspices of wanting to build a CDI for his MG. Then at one point he mentioned it was a project for him and his students. I was only aware that he was actually starting a business a few months ago when he started selling kits (the circuit board and parts list) based on my father’s patent. Not knowing his true intent I gave him design parameters which distinguish a good CDI from a poor one. Whether he was actually teaching a class in electronics I can’t say for sure but I doubt it based on some of his questions to both me and on ecircuits forum. Despite the subterfuge and lack of experience he has likely come up with a viable CDI. His price point is too low for something hand made but it likely has 1/4 the labour in it as what mine has and way fewer expensive components. His current design is also lifted from an expired patent. Unless he has updated his website I saw no mention of giving credit where credit is due. Fred
| Millionmph wrote: |
| Hmmm, neat, Currently running the allison xr700 optical ignition and blue coil; the coil could use an upgrade to get some big spark but this is neat, wonder if it would work with the optical trigger on the allison ad box |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dan Ruddock
Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2012
Posts: 3668
Location: Sarasota, in my adopted state of Florida
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2023 5:30 am Post subject: Re: Miller Ignition USA Made CDI for $150 |
|
|
| Fred Winterburn wrote: |
I’ve corresponded with Jon. He contacted me a year and a half ago under the auspices of wanting to build a CDI for his MG. Then at one point he mentioned it was a project for him and his students. I was only aware that he was actually starting a business a few months ago when he started selling kits (the circuit board and parts list) based on my father’s patent. Not knowing his true intent I gave him design parameters which distinguish a good CDI from a poor one. Whether he was actually teaching a class in electronics I can’t say for sure but I doubt it based on some of his questions to both me and on ecircuits forum. Despite the subterfuge and lack of experience he has likely come up with a viable CDI. His price point is too low for something hand made but it likely has 1/4 the labour in it as what mine has and way fewer expensive components. His current design is also lifted from an expired patent. Unless he has updated his website I saw no mention of giving credit where credit is due. Fred
| Millionmph wrote: |
| Hmmm, neat, Currently running the allison xr700 optical ignition and blue coil; the coil could use an upgrade to get some big spark but this is neat, wonder if it would work with the optical trigger on the allison ad box |
|
The part I find questionable is the multi-spark to redline. What gives? I also doubt the Miller has a hand wound transformer like the Winterburn. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fred Winterburn
Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2013
Posts: 423
Location: Ripley Ontario Canada
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2023 6:06 am Post subject: Re: Miller Ignition USA Made CDI for $150 |
|
|
| I have no doubt that it does multispark to redline. So does mine, but differently. The old compuspark (if I’m remembering the name correctly, I’m in Virginia visiting my daughter so don’t have access to my collection) gave two distinct sparks to redline using one capacitor and conventional coil. It was a clever design for the 1970s. The very expensive CDI plus also makes 2 short sparks to redline but it needs a low induction coil to work effectively. The important thing is that the interval between sparks should be no longer than 300 microseconds. MSD has a full 1mS between sparks when nothing happens which is far too many crankshaft degrees. Note that I am creating doubt in MSD products and leaving a trail of breadcrumbs that leads to Jon’s CDI. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
