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itskyle
Samba Member
Joined: October 04, 2013
Posts: 634
Location: Plainfield, IN
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 Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:42 am Post subject: Fuel consumption question |
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Hey all,
I've noticed that my 66 seems to go through a lot of gas. More so than I do when I eat spicy foods 
There are some oil leaks, but no gas leaks or gas smell.
Is it possible that I have my idle set to high on the carb?
Speaking of the carb, sometimes I notice a little seepage of gas towards the bottom of the unit on the flange itself. It's a solex 30 PICT 2. I can probably snap a picture of this during lunch.
Kyle
_________________
--
69 or 72 Autostick Bug current
66 Bug (We both miss it)
74 SuperBeetle Auto Stick (I miss that car)
73 SquareBack, Straight Stick (Wife misses this one.) |
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A67what
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2012
Posts: 89
Location: Mesa, Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:53 am Post subject: |
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1. What mileage are you getting now?
2. What carb/s are you running?
3. Whats your engines capacity?
4. Do you know what your current jets are? |
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gt1953
Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2002
Posts: 13948
Location: White Mountains Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:54 am Post subject: |
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Is the engine tuned to specs?
How are your driving habits?
_________________
Volkswagen: We tune what we drive.
Numbers Matching VW's are getting harder to find. Source out the most Stock vehicle and keep that way. You will be glad you did.
72 type 1
72 Squareback
({59 Euro bug, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69, 73 type ones 68 & 69 type two, 68 Ghia all sold}) |
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KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 35999
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:54 am Post subject: |
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Check your oil for level and smell of gas. Your diaphragm may be leaking gas into the crankcase. Also check the trans tunnel for dampness from a leaky hard line. And of course check all hoses (front, next to tranny, engine bay) for leaks.
But I am puzzled... to notice a MPG difference it would have to be more than 10% or so. That's a gallon lost per tankful.
Is this car stock (other than your newer carb)? Still 1300 or bored to 1600? |
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itskyle
Samba Member
Joined: October 04, 2013
Posts: 634
Location: Plainfield, IN
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| Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:22 am Post subject: Here's what I know so far... |
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Solex 30 PICT 2 carb. Rebuilt by me.
No gas leaks that I can detect anywhere else in the car.
Engine should be the stock 1300. No clue as to whether or not it got bored out to 1600 or not. Do know from experience yesterday it will get up to 60. It's been a while since I rode bigger VW air cooled engines, but I think 60 was easier to obtain on both the 74 Superbeetle and the 73 Squareback that I used to have.
Tuneup, points, etc. That's all on the list.
Exact MPG figures? Hard to do with onboard ODO and fuel gauge not working.
Been thinking about using an iPhone app to keep track of mileage.
Hope to get the fuel gauge fixed tonight.
_________________
--
69 or 72 Autostick Bug current
66 Bug (We both miss it)
74 SuperBeetle Auto Stick (I miss that car)
73 SquareBack, Straight Stick (Wife misses this one.) |
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djshutup
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2013
Posts: 190
Location: United States
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| Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:30 am Post subject: |
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well without being to able to track what mpg your getting you might be in the right range. There is 100's of apps to track that stuff for your phone all you need is to write down the odometer and how many gallons you put in.
_________________
1967 Volkswagen Bug (stock). 1980 Yamaha XS400 Special II (stock). Ya I like stock classics |
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Donnie strickland
Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2009
Posts: 2403
Location: Moody, AL
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| Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| Yes, without some way to keep up with MPG it'll be hard to tell anything. Do you feel it's using more lately, or has it always been this way? |
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itskyle
Samba Member
Joined: October 04, 2013
Posts: 634
Location: Plainfield, IN
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| Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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It's been this way since I rebuilt the carb.
Forgot to mention driving style. I do typically "drive it like I stole it"  which is why this little 66 1300cc should be good for me. It won't let me break the speed limit.
Without accurate measurements, I do kind of feel like I am whistling in the wind in this one. Maybe if j can get the fuel gauge sorted out I'd have a better chance of it.
Kyle
_________________
--
69 or 72 Autostick Bug current
66 Bug (We both miss it)
74 SuperBeetle Auto Stick (I miss that car)
73 SquareBack, Straight Stick (Wife misses this one.) |
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Donnie strickland
Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2009
Posts: 2403
Location: Moody, AL
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| Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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No, the '66 fuel gauge is useless for calculating mileage, as it's not nearly accurate enough for that. An accurate odometer is the most (only?) accurate way. Fill up, drive 100 miles, fill up again, compute mileage.
And you're right, driving style does have a lot to do with it. VW manuals used to tell people that for good fuel economy, to not press the gas pedal more than 1/3 of the way, or to pretend there was an egg under the pedal. |
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glutamodo
The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 26534
Location: Douglas, WY
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| Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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Agreed, you need solid numbers. I've kept a log of every drop of fuel I've ever bought for my cars over the years, and I calculate fuel economy every time I fill up (and I watch for how far off my odometer is from actual and factor that in too) Only with good statistics can you make any kind of definitive assessment of your economy.
Buy a decent notebook, and start a log. (I lost the cheap notebook I started with, so I'm missing a few months of records...  )
Here's one example of one of my cars' logbooks:
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Joel
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2006
Posts: 11099
Location: NSW Australia
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| Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:35 am Post subject: |
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Glad to know I'm not the only one that does that 
The current notepad in my glovebox goes back 4 years but I have older ones in storage somewhere.
I use GPS to calculate my mileage, VW odometers weren't even spot on when the cars were new let alone 40+ years later with modern tyre sizes.
And Kyle if you drive it like you stole it you seriously expect it to give good mpg? not gonna happen.
Forget you have a fuel gauge and an odometer, just fill it till its full, use GPS to track your mileage and then fill it till its full again is the only way you will accurately work it out. |
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itskyle
Samba Member
Joined: October 04, 2013
Posts: 634
Location: Plainfield, IN
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| Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 5:31 am Post subject: Update: Fuel Gauge fixed! |
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| Joel wrote: |
Glad to know I'm not the only one that does that
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Actually, a buddy of mine does that, too. But he had different reasoning-he was involved in Civil Air Patrol, and also his job required him to travel a lot. I admired his documentation skills, but could never budget my time wisely enough for an extra few minutes of documentation each trip
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The current notepad in my glovebox goes back 4 years but I have older ones in storage somewhere.
I use GPS to calculate my mileage, VW odometers weren't even spot on when the cars were new let alone 40+ years later with modern tyre sizes.
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By that reckoning, could you extend it to the speedo side of the VW as well? Just curious. I haven't noticed it (the speedo) being off by much, if at all.
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And Kyle if you drive it like you stole it you seriously expect it to give good mpg?
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What can I say? I guess I am thrilled to be driving one of these again, after all of these years driving bland vehicles around.
Probably right. This whole chapter in my VW ownership has led me to some interesting questions... We have a local outfit around here that will coat the innards of your gas tank with some sort of material to prevent it from rusting out. Could be the same material you see people put in truck beds, I am not sure.
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Forget you have a fuel gauge
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I didn't forget about the gauge. Last night, I fixed it Turns out, the float lever thingymabob got bound up and wouldn't move from the "Empty" position.
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and an odometer, just fill it till its full, use GPS to track your mileage and then fill it till its full again is the only way you will accurately work it out. |
But, I am halfway there. I filled it until it was full this morning, and proceeded to use my bicycle GPS app to track the miles driven so far. Will revisit the thread with actual mileage, more than likely sometime this weekend.
I figure after getting these baseline data, I can tinker more with the carb, and eventually, after tinkering with the carb, and after fixing the ODO, I will delete all track record data from this experiment (I hear some of you gasping saying, egads, why, but I really don't want to mess up my bicycling stats too much.)
Just thought I'd update everybody.
_________________
--
69 or 72 Autostick Bug current
66 Bug (We both miss it)
74 SuperBeetle Auto Stick (I miss that car)
73 SquareBack, Straight Stick (Wife misses this one.) |
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*Darren
Samba Member
Joined: July 29, 2013
Posts: 917
Location: MD
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| Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:12 am Post subject: |
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Here is my fuel consumption log. Simple spreadsheet calculations. There are simple apps available.
My first fillup mileage always sucks due to evaporation due to sitting. Seasonal fuel blend can cause mileage to vary. City driving will affect mileage (stop & go) & how you drive (high rev vs low). Heat vs cold weather. All of the typical things. And most important - your eye as there isn't an automatic shutoff when filling (at least for me).
Date Odo Dist Price TotalS Gals MPG
03/31/10 57143 0 2.799 12.80 4.573 0.00
05/07/10 57264 121 2.899 17.00 5.867 20.62
06/12/10 57443 179 2.599 20.10 7.735 23.14
07/25/10 57563 120 2.569 13.25 5.157 23.27
08/29/10 57697 134 2.549 15.60 6.121 21.89
09/25/10 57856 159 2.559 17.15 6.701 23.73
11/14/10 58024 168 2.849 21.00 7.372 22.79
03/18/11 58104 080 3.499 13.00 3.715 21.53
05/03/11 58244 140 3.899 24.51 6.285 22.28
06/07/11 58403 159 3.739 25.00 6.685 23.78
07/31/11 58559 156 3.659 21.50 5.877 26.54
10/09/11 58727 168 3.399 24.51 7.202 23.33
11/25/11 58929 202 3.279 26.00 7.928 25.48
03/07/12 59040 111 3.729 19.00 5.095 21.79
04/14/12 59201 161 3.989 26.00 6.517 24.70
05/16/12 59357 156 3.599 23.10 6.418 24.31
06/24/12 59543 186 3.359 23.60 6.964 26.71
08/20/12 59686 143 3.579 21.25 5.937 24.09
10/05/12 59858 172 3.759 27.05 7.197 23.90
11/16/12 60035 177 3.499 24.10 6.887 25.70
03/10/13 60175 140 3.629 22.60 6.227 22.48
05/25/13 60333 158 3.499 24.30 6.946 22.75
09/02/13 60498 165 3.499 24.00 6.860 24.05 |
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itskyle
Samba Member
Joined: October 04, 2013
Posts: 634
Location: Plainfield, IN
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| Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:38 am Post subject: Fuel Economy Measures and countermeasures... |
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| *Darren wrote: |
Here is my fuel consumption log. Simple spreadsheet calculations. There are simple apps available.
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Any iOS ones you would care to recomment ? Nudge nudge, wink wink...
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My first fillup mileage always sucks due to evaporation due to sitting. Seasonal fuel blend can cause mileage to vary. City driving will affect mileage (stop & go) & how you drive (high rev vs low). Heat vs cold weather. All of the typical things.
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All typical things they harp about on the Prius email group (which I need to desubscribe now that I no longer have one of those.) You did neglect to mention tire pressure. It's the most overlooked cause of bad gas mileage. I'm not sure about whether or not an oil-bath air filter vs. traditional new-fangled paper matrix air filter is better for mileage or not. That discussion was never to be had at the Prius list-those all shipped with paper matrix filters.
The other factor that they had no control over-is they had EFI. I keep wondering if there is a way to tune my carby to be miserly on gas without adversely affecting performance.
One one of my push mowers, I ran across an ideal carb adjustment that let me mow my smallish side yard for about half a season without needing a fillup. Granted, we are talking 4 cycle vs 2 cycle now, but maybe the same theory would apply?...
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And most important - your eye as there isn't an automatic shutoff when filling (at least for me).
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That's too bad, must be the pumps in your area. It always auto-shutoffs for me when filling up. It's just being wealthy enough to fill it up in the first place
To be honest, I was kind of hoping for high 20s low 30s on my 66. I was getting 36 mpg somehow on my 74 SB autostick, ages ago.
Of course, gas back then was different. You could still, in some places, buy leaded gas.
Kyle
_________________
--
69 or 72 Autostick Bug current
66 Bug (We both miss it)
74 SuperBeetle Auto Stick (I miss that car)
73 SquareBack, Straight Stick (Wife misses this one.) |
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Joel
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2006
Posts: 11099
Location: NSW Australia
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| Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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| itskyle wrote: |
| Joel wrote: |
Glad to know I'm not the only one that does that
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Actually, a buddy of mine does that, too. But he had different reasoning-he was involved in Civil Air Patrol, and also his job required him to travel a lot. I admired his documentation skills, but could never budget my time wisely enough for an extra few minutes of documentation each trip |
I just write down mileage and fuel added when I fill up each time which only takes 10-15secs before I drive off from the pumps.
Later on when I have a few mins spare I calculate it all and cross reference with GPS.
I just keep a notepad in my glovebox like Andy only not quite as detailed.
It's really just for my own curiousity sake and I can give people actual data if they want to know real time figures.
Also helps me see if any changes I make have an effect.
Like with it being almost summer here my A/C is on constantly so its i can see or not if its hurting my mileage compared to winter time
But there you have it, 180HP in a heavy Super averaging 8.6L/100km (27.7 US mpg) with constant A/C use.
THing is the VW engine design is coming up on 70 years old, they gave great mpg in their era compared to other cars but now most people don't drive VWs anymore looking for economy, they are a hobby car unless you do a modern engine transplant.
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| By that reckoning, could you extend it to the speedo side of the VW as well? Just curious. I haven't noticed it (the speedo) being off by much, if at all. |
THe odometer and speedo accuracy can vary wildy.
WHen I run tyres that match factory ones size wise my speed matches my GPS perfectly but my odo is always wildly off, with stock size tyres on it only reads 8.8Kms for every 10 I drive and gets more accurate the smaller the tyres I run.
One of the main reasons I use GPS to track my mileage.
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| I keep wondering if there is a way to tune my carby to be miserly on gas without adversely affecting performance. |
Generally not, the factory set the carb for the balance of mileage, performacen and engine life span.
You may be able to make small improvements but leaning it out will shorten engine life in the long run.
Paying a bit more out the pump wont hurt as much as rebuilding an engine sooner than you have too. |
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itskyle
Samba Member
Joined: October 04, 2013
Posts: 634
Location: Plainfield, IN
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| Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:45 am Post subject: Update on mpg |
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It's a ballpark figure, but this weekend, on a long trip, with a fully loaded beetle, averaged 24.89 miles per gallon.
Believe that that is probably about where it should be. What do you all think about it?
_________________
--
69 or 72 Autostick Bug current
66 Bug (We both miss it)
74 SuperBeetle Auto Stick (I miss that car)
73 SquareBack, Straight Stick (Wife misses this one.) |
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glutamodo
The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 26534
Location: Douglas, WY
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| Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| That seems a little low for a 1300. About normal if it's a 1600. |
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Joel
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2006
Posts: 11099
Location: NSW Australia
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| Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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| That's not bad for a fully loaded up Beetle. |
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itskyle
Samba Member
Joined: October 04, 2013
Posts: 634
Location: Plainfield, IN
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:14 am Post subject: Fully loaded is fully loaded... |
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| Joel wrote: |
| That's not bad for a fully loaded up Beetle. |
It was fully loaded with camping gear for the weekend.
3 backpacks.
2 guys (including me)
2 air mattresses (one twin, one full double height)
1 10 person tent and it's accoutrements
1 regular sized rollerbob airport luggage.
sleeping bags
blankets
more blankets
pillows
and the usual stuff you'd find in a vw of this vintage
starter fluid/carb cleaner
oil (couple of quarts, one almost empty)
miscellaneous screwdrivers.
ubiquitous multi purpose brick (cruise control and parking brake)
I'll get nearly empty results later-still have to deal with the 3 busted lug nuts on the front left drum.
Kyle
_________________
--
69 or 72 Autostick Bug current
66 Bug (We both miss it)
74 SuperBeetle Auto Stick (I miss that car)
73 SquareBack, Straight Stick (Wife misses this one.) |
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andk5591
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 16804
Location: State College, PA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:36 am Post subject: |
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Agreed that the milage is in the ballpark - Just use the odometer and track it over several fill ups and then average that. I can see a variation from one tank to the next of several MPG and that's probably because I am not filling it to the same level.
And just a comment - I got much worse milage on my 65 when I had my stock 1200 in it. Once I did the big bore kit and dialed in the jetting, my MPG got a lot better since I didnt have it floored all the time.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone 1914. Ex wifes car.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Ex-wifes car.
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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