Correct muffler and tailpipe for my 1969 RHD 411

[lateral]

Hi guys

I have a 1969 411 (RHD) and the car has been fitted with an AP series Type 4 engine (1800).

The exhaust currently comes out of the right hand side instead of the left hand side "cutout".

This annoys me every time I look at the rear of the car!

I would really like to find the correct exhaust and have the tailpipe exit the left hand side of the rear.

Am I correct in that the correct muffler is part # 021251101E and the correct tailpipe/damper is part # 021251171P?

Also, will this exhaust fit the AP series engine and perhaps later model Type 4 engines such as a CJ series engine?

My car has all of the heater boxes in place as well.

Thanks for any help you can provide me.

Cheers
Greg

[raygreenwood]

[lateral]

As always, thanks Ray,

The car went originally to Papua New Guinea and then to Australia.

Australia apparently never officially received any 411.

I was told that VW sent out 6 test vehicles and that VW Australia decided not to import them.

Just so that I am clear, are you saying that the muffler (021 251 101E) is correct and that the damper (021 251 177C) is what I really need but that the Damper on the Samba (021 251 171 N) will also work?

I checked the parts book that I have and I think I have also located another damper (021 251 171) that suits up to engine number V0 049 186 (The original engine number for my car was V0 041 157) so I am assuming that this will work as well.

As the original engine in the car has been replaced with an AP series Type 4 engine, am I correct in assuming that the muffler/damper will fit?

Thanks again Ray.

Cheers
Greg

[raygreenwood]

So, if find a damper style, left exit muffler....yes...it will bolt right up to your exhaust system.

But, while the owner selling that tail pipe has done as much as he can to identify the part he has....I think a little more research needs to be done before we say that it WILL fit the muffler you buy....and ALSO meet up with the cut out in your rear valance.

See, he is using literature from the Leistritz catalog. Nothing wrong with that.....but the picture he has in his ad is showing two different sharp turn, small outlet damper tailpipes neither of which are using VW #s.

The vw parts book appears to show the shorter variety....not that parts book diagrams are particularly to scale. It appears to me that the tail pipe he has for sale is the longer variety shown in his Leistritz diagram on the right.

So while it's the correct "type" of tailpipe for the muffler "type" your car needs.....I just do not know if it's the exact right one.

Since you need to have both parts....I would acquire the main muffler first. Then you can hold it up close and measure which tailpipe you need and then search for that.

I will look and see if I still have/own the damper style, right hand exit muffler that I had. If so, I can at least measure it for you. The left and right hand are mirror images of each other. It should at least tell you which pipe length you need to meet up with your cut out.

Ray

[lateral]

Thanks Ray

Am I correct in assuming that these mufflers will fit all Type engines as the car currently has an AP series engine installed?

Cheers
Greg

[Pepperbilly]

That is an interesting cheese grater. I have never seen that before with the cut out.

Bill

[Pepperbilly]

[wonkipop]

i can shed some light on the muffler.
own a 914.
live in melbourne australia.

914s shared the earlier muffler with the central exit hot dog or damper muffler with the 411,

in 1973 the central exit design gave way to the single muffler with the short tailpipe out the left hand side. this muffler superseded the earlier mufflers as the replacement part for all 914 models. two tailpipes were offered to deal with the earlier model 914s that had the deep rear valence and the later 914s with the cut down valence panel.

the single piece muffler appeared to arrive with the 412.
the same muffler was also used for the buses with the type 4 engine.

the muffler exits left hand side on a 914 and right hand side on a bus.



but thats not the whole story.

25 years back i picked up a beautiful stainless steel bus (kombi) muffler to fit to my 914. it looked identical to the original factory 914 muffler. except the inlet flange plates on the muffler that mate with the heat exchangers/outlets were fabricated upside down on the 914 muffler when compared to the bus muffler.

went to fit muffler. same dilemma as you. annoying right hand side exit for tailpipe instead of left hand side. solution. we cut the flange plates off and rewelded them on upside down. discovering in the process that that was how a 914 muffler was manufactured back in 73/74. it was a bus muffler with the flange plates welded on the other way around. the 914 muffler is quite literally mounted upside down. all the deformations that fit around the lower fan casting etc and face up on a 412/bus muffler face down on a 914 (even the factory fitted mufflers were like this).

suspect that its the same for the 411.
you won't find one of those central outlet damper type mufflers anymore.
or if you do its going to be rare rare rare.

but the 914 muffler that dansk make for the 1.7 and 1.8 914s is the correct part for a 914. i recall looking into this a few years back and dansk also offer the 411/412 bus muffler. i assume this has the flange plates welded on upside down compared to the 914 and the deformations in the muffler face up. the trick is going to be can you reconfigure the whole thing with the deformations up for correct fitment in a 411 and still get the left hand side exit. i suspect the dansk mufflers now all result in right hand side exit.

i've got photos somewhere of all the details and how it mounts etc on a 914.

but it could be as simple as the removal of the flange plates and rewelding them on the other way around. the deformations in the muffler might be the stumbling block.


---------

@lateral

is there evidence your 411 was once a burgundy color.
is it a fastback?

i remember the 411 fastback appraisal car from the 80s when it was owned by a guy in melbourne. he had rescued it from papua new guinea. i think i have my memory reliable enough to recall it was burgundy.

the other ones i remember that were still around was a white 69 variant and a white 69 four door. the variant was in melbourne in the 80s and was down in condition even then. the 4 door lived in canberra and was immaculate and well cared for.

[Pepperbilly]

I know you are probably wanting to keep the car as original as possible. If you don’t care so much about that I would source a later style cheese grater. Might be the easier way to go. If you do that hang on to your original cheese grater.

Bill

[kgarchivinusa]

Hi Greg,

The First Modelyear came only with a „V“ Engine.

you need
Muffler 021 251 101 E
Tailpipe 021 251 171 C

_________________
1958 Ghia Coupe aerosilver/graywhite
1966 Ghia Coupe lotoswhite/black pigalle
1968 sunroof bug savannah beige
1968 VW 411 4-door royal red
1968 VW 411 L 4-door cobaltblue
1988 Porsche 924S Targa alpinweiss

(O = i = O) Karmann Ghia rassig und charmant [hot-blooded and charming] [O o\ i /o O]

[kgarchivinusa]

Hi Greg,

The First Modelyear came only with a „V“ Engine.

you need
Muffler 021 251 101 E
Tailpipe 021 251 171 C

_________________
1958 Ghia Coupe aerosilver/graywhite
1966 Ghia Coupe lotoswhite/black pigalle
1968 sunroof bug savannah beige
1968 VW 411 4-door royal red
1968 VW 411 L 4-door cobaltblue
1988 Porsche 924S Targa alpinweiss

(O = i = O) Karmann Ghia rassig und charmant [hot-blooded and charming] [O o\ i /o O]