Realignment of sagging doors

[tobybeetle69]

Hi

This weekend we attempted to address sagging doors where the top left corner of our drivers side door sags significantly

To do this we got new hinge pins and screws and with a jack attempted to improve the alignment

When removing the top three hinge screws we noticed that they had a nut on the back
After doing some research it looks like we are missing cage nuts. As the car is fully painted and we don’t have the welding skills my questions is

Should I use regular screws and nuts or is there a better fix for this?

I believe there is some slack on the top hinge due to the nuts which is causing the misalignment

Thanks

[VW_Jimbo]

Ok. That is the top hinge on the right side. But WTF is that a picture of? It looks like Allen head bolts or? HELP ME, HELP YOU!

I need a full picture, of the issue. EDUCATE me. I am not stupid. I do require information of your situation. So, explain it to me like I am a 2 year old. Add pictures to clarify those points which require more than 500 words to FULLY explain.

You have my full attention, do what you want with it.
_________________
Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[tobybeetle69]

Hi Jimbo

Thanks for your reply

Your correct, the pic was drivers side too door hinge. Previously there was Allen head bolts with a nut on the back. We have brought new hinge screws to replace (see pic below)

But there is nothing to screw these into. Tried to take pic from the other side to show how the previous Allen bolts are secured.

So, our question is should be be using a nut to secure or is there a better way to fix this ?

[viiking]

The "new" screws in your photo are actually the correct ones (or ones similar to that) which came with the car.

The nut and bolt in your "old" photo shows what is commonly done to replace the original rivet side of the door hinge. That is, the hinge is riveted to the door frame and the rivets are not an easy DIY repair for the average person. VW in fact offered these sort of nuts and bolts as a repair assembly for the rivet side of the hinge. Here's a photo of the door side rivets that normally get replaced.

You indeed are missing the nut cage on the hinge. You can see a strap about 6 o'clock into which the (U shaped- from memory?)cage loosely fits. The cage can often come loose and hence someone has replaced it with the nuts or perhaps the cage and bolts had rusted together requiring replacement.

The top one should be easy to access from the boot, the lower one a little more difficult.

Give Vintage Veedub in Campsie a call. They have a fair number of used parts who could help you. Alternatively post on the aussieveedubbers FB page.
_________________
1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3

[viiking]

And as an edit.

The holes for the nut and bolts or the correct screws cannot be wallowed out. If the hole is too big the door will sag. I had to weld the holes closed a bit and re-drill to the correct size.

That's not what you want to hear if you've recently repainted.
_________________
1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3

[talljordan]

The previous advice is incorrect.

The doors were NEVER rivetted to the body. The hinges were riveted to the door. It looks like someone used rivet replacement bolts/nuts on the body side which is incorrect!

This section of the body is not strong enough alone, thus causing your sagging. There should be a captive U/L shaped piece of metal behind the door post that those stock bolts thread into, all 3 bolts go into the same piece and it provides extra structural support. You will have to purchase those pieces from someone on the classifies.
_________________
1972 Super Beetle, Parked until adequate restoration funding is acquired in restoration!

Wanted: Male computer diagnostic plug end

[viiking]

[viiking]

[tobybeetle69]

Thanks all for the advice. Have managed to find a local supplier who has just added to their range, a screw in plate that can be used to fix this issue. Have purchased and will let you know how it turns out

[VW_Jimbo]

Sorry for not seeing this till now.

You are missing the nut plate in the A pillar. That loose finger is where it goes under. Like these.

They go in like this. This is out of my Oval. Later models are slightly different but they all get held in place by a steel overlaying strip of steel.

And to be clear. Viking has misinformed you. Viking, DUDE, you have to stop the misinformation.

The screws hold the hinge leaf to the A pillar, in conjunction of the nut plate.

The other leaf of the hinge, slide into a pocket in the door construction and is riveted in place.
_________________
Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[viiking]

[VW_Jimbo]

The way it is worded is confusing. I had to reread it several times to finally click into HOW you were explaining it. You are right but not right, as well. Sorry. But you need to speak car in simple words. There is something off, just cannot pin point it.

I guess it would be like myself trying to explain how nuclear fission works to generate steam to turn a compression fan….never mind. That is above my education level. Viking, I think I can break it down for you. K.I.S.S. Utilize that rule. When you reach the 10 word limit on writing, input a picture. It helps tremendously.
_________________
Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[viiking]

OK. Let’s kiss and make up and move on.

Now if you DO want to know about nuclear fission I can help you with that in simple terms but I fear we need to take it off this topic.
_________________
1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3