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Mtngirls
Samba Member
Joined: September 08, 2007
Posts: 19
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 Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2023 8:06 pm Post subject: Paint Codes not making sense |
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| Hello. I have a 1977 microbes. The M code plate did not have a paint code but on the door there is a sticker that reads MARINOGELB L21B and PASTELLWEL L90D. I translated it from German it says Marino Yellow L21H and Pastel White L90D. According to everything I read the Pastel White was used in 71-72 and the Marino Yellow 74-79. The paint codes do not match the ones I find online. Can someone please explain this to me. Was the bus 2 tone or special order paint. I want to take it back to original but am really confused. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks |
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busdaddy
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Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Mtngirls
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Joined: September 08, 2007
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2023 8:46 pm Post subject: Re: Paint Codes not making sense |
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Any idea why the actual paint codes would be wrong? |
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EverettB 
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Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 71513
Location: Phoenix 602
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| Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2023 8:58 pm Post subject: Re: Paint Codes not making sense |
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| Mtngirls wrote: |
Any idea why the actual paint codes would be wrong? |
I happened to see this post and it looks like we listed it as 71-72 because that's what is in the paint charts further up that paint page linked above.
We don't have a full listing of the later paint charts/codes.
I checked a bunch of VW Bus literature on the site post-1972 and see Pastel White listed so I changed it from "71-72" to 71-up" to be more broad ranging.
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94touring
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Joined: October 24, 2020
Posts: 492
Location: Tulsa - OK
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| Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2023 10:38 pm Post subject: Re: Paint Codes not making sense |
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I pulled up the old PPG charts from 1977 and it list L90D Pastel white for micro busses and L20A but calls it chrome yellow. However, cross referencing to 1976 L20A is also called Marinogelb. Looks kinda golden
for a yellow right? |
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SGKent
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Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 42498
Location: at the beach
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| Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2023 11:01 pm Post subject: Re: Paint Codes not making sense |
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my 1977 had pastel white L90D over sage green
here is another list. https://www.bustopia.com/vw-bay-window-bus-paint-codes.html
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SamboSamba22
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Joined: August 06, 2015
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Location: Benton, Arkansas
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 23130
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2023 9:08 am Post subject: Re: Paint Codes not making sense |
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| 94touring wrote: |
I pulled up the old PPG charts from 1977 and it list L90D Pastel white for micro busses and L20A but calls it chrome yellow. However, cross referencing to 1976 L20A is also called Marinogelb. Looks kinda golden
for a yellow right? |
Yes. Chrome yellow is the paint/ink/coating industry terminology for the particular hue of yellow. But it visually does not translate to the average person. Chrome mentally means something else to the non-color technical public.
So over the years the paint companies started giving more marketing oriented names to that golden yellow color (Chrome yellow).....like "golden rod" (which actually has its own hue) and orange-yellow and on other industry paint pallets that are German based, chrome yellow in "flat/gloss" (non-metallic) colors has been named "gold" or gold-yellow.
The term marine yellow....marine kind of translates to "of the sea" or sea yellow....but I think that is kind of a re-translated misnomer. In the 60s and 70s (and still now in some places) that "chrome yellow" color was part of the color pallets for the US Marine Corp and was actually taken from the Navy and had been called "signal Yellow" for eons. Signal meaning navy signal flag signal. It's RAL # is 1003.
It's actually just "chrome-yellow".
Chrome yellow as a name (outside of the printing/coatings industry) has also fallen out of favor to use with the public....because it's name came from the fact that originally its main ingredient was hexavalent-chrome (Chrome 6)....highly toxic.
Ray |
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94touring
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Joined: October 24, 2020
Posts: 492
Location: Tulsa - OK
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| Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2023 9:27 am Post subject: Re: Paint Codes not making sense |
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| Yep. My point to the OP is L20A is marinogelb as placarded on his bus, but if he goes to a paint shop, don't be confused if it says chrome yellow. |
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jtauxe
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Posts: 5974
Location: Los Alamos, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2023 10:27 am Post subject: Re: Paint Codes not making sense |
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Note that there is a MarinoGelb (L20A) and a MarinoGelb77 (L21H).
They are slightly different, as shown in this pic:
To me, the L21H is ever so slightly darker orange. It's subtle.
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 23130
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2023 11:44 am Post subject: Re: Paint Codes not making sense |
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| jtauxe wrote: |
Note that there is a MarinoGelb (L20A) and a MarinoGelb77 (L21H).
They are slightly different, as shown in this pic:
To me, the L21H is ever so slightly darker orange. It's subtle. |
Nice photo!
And its worth it to know...that paints that actually used Chrome 6 as a pigment will darken with age due to the oxidizing effects of light (not just UV but thats a big part of if).
Those are actually all the same "base" color. There are just differences in strength/pigment volume.
Its a pain finding out exactly how each mfg decodes their code....but of course "L" pretty much means VW for all auto paints.
Depending on the mfg, the first number (either single digits or a double digit) is usually a "strength" of "chroma" number of the specific hue of the color. The letter code at the end may refer to the base hue (say... chrome yellow) or in some mfgs may mean a treatment added to that paint like more clear base for higher gloss (which makes it deeper) or more white to make it a higher tint #.
So L20A....likely decoded is : L=VW 20=strength/percentage A or H = base starting hue (chrome yellow).
Or it may be the other way around, L= VW, 20= base starting hue #20 (chrome yellow) and the A or H = specific additive like white or clear.
The other thing I am suspecting...just from the picture (which could be meaningless 50 years down the line from when the paint was applied)... is that the difference between L20A and L21H is an added amount of extra white in 20A.
If you look at L21 in that picture in various areas of the bus...starting at the left rear C-pillar, moving to the back hatch and down to the left hand quarter panel...on all 3....the 21H appears to be more uniform in color.
The 20A appears to exhibit several different shades as it is hit by varying angle of light. This is one indicator that it has more white in it. The increasing addition of white (which is multispectral)....will cause color changing under differing light which is called metamerism.
Ray |
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rsbadura
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Joined: November 30, 2009
Posts: 747
Location: Berlin, Germany
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| Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2023 12:22 pm Post subject: Re: Paint Codes not making sense |
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my own bay window color web page: https://www.vw-t2-bulli.de/de-colors.html (sorry German)
The change of marinogelb from L20A to L21H was in mid modell year '77 and is documented by fin (L20A to 2?72079871, L21H from 2?72079872).
Maybe due to toxic lead additives for yellow/orange shades, the color mixture is slightly different (tables at color companies as Glasurit/Lesonal/Standox/...)
| Mtngirls wrote: |
| The M code plate did not have a paint code... |
This is very untypical - even if special company colors used, than there was/is a hint in that code for it.
Is there no 6 letter code (2 for body, 2 for roof, 2 for interior) on your M plate?
Have you really decoded the correct plate under the dash?
But anyway, your sticker could be correct for this model year.
regards,
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