5-Rib Pinion Bearing Nut??? NOW WITH VIDEO!

[Dan_Lockwood]

After doing some cleaning etc, I pulled the bell housing off again. This is a '74 002, but it has the 091 bell housing.

I got the snap ring off the input shaft and pulled the slide gear up and unscrewed the input shaft. No problems as all and all looks good. I have a new '69/'71 short input shaft to mate up with my Type 1 motor.

BUT... I thought I would just go in with a long probe and just check the pinion nut for tightness. Upon pushing down on the very small teeth on the nut, it moved. It moves in both directions. I turned it several turns clockwise thinking that it "should" tighten up at some point.

I noticed that the roller bearings in their cage were also moving with the nut. After I got some of the gear oil off the area, I found what looks like a locking divot in the whatever it is, that locks the nut to it. Those two pieces move together, and like I said, multiple turns and it does not tighten up at all.

My backlash feels very good and without the concerns of the nut, I'd be happy just to put it all back together. I just want to know if I need to take it somewhere that has the proper tools to pull the ring gear assembly off and tighten things up again. Or, "assuming" it's locked together, just run it???

Here's a picture of the divot I mentioned with it peened over and locked together. None of the videos show or tell anything about this rotational looseness etc.

Thanks, Dan

[mcmscott]

Pinion bore in the case is trashed, you are turning the complete pinion bearing in the main case, this bearing should be an interferance fit,, slightly pressed together.
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[Dan_Lockwood]

[jsturtlebuggy]

There are businesses that install a steel sleeve in worn pinion bearing bores.
I don’t know if Scott does it.
There is DK Machining & Fabrication in Norwalk, California. Phone #562-864-9618. Don is a very knowledgeable machinist and I seen and used parts he makes.

Also in Michigan there is B&D Custom Performance VW Transaxles in Owosso, Michigan. Phone #989-277-0040. I met Bill when he and his Wife came out to California for a Manx Club event last year. Club members like his work.
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Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960

[mcmscott]

[Dan_Lockwood]

Thanks for the suggestions.

After doing some more looking at my situation, it appears that the outer, whatever it is, race, steel sleeve etc, is NOT turning in the case. I have no idea what the parts all look like apart that I see in the following video. I'm guessing that from the videos of disassembly of the 002 gear sets, that after the nut is removed, it take a bit of pressing pressure to dislodge the pinion shaft from the bearing carrier.

Whatever is suppose to lock the pinion nut to the pinion shaft seems to be turning. But I've pried from side to side and get no looseness in the pinion gear/shaft. It seems to be really solid and the teeth are super nice, no scoring or pits. It's also a 7/34 R/P set.

As the video will show, the nut just keeps turning in either direction and does not loosen or tighten up. "IF" I have this issue and the nut has to come off for a repair, how will the nut come loose with the socket if the part that it screws onto turns with it?

Here's a short video of what I have. Also, can someone post a page from a parts book showing the exploded parts at the end of the pinion shaft? It would be very helpful to see what I have there for parts etc.

Thanks.


Link

[jimmyhoffa]

No no, you're just seeing the washer not move. That is very destroyed to the point that the locating lugs on the other side are blown off or worn away. Probably not worth re-working the case.

I'd tap that retention ding back out or grind it off and then put pressure on the shaft from the other side to try to hold the bearing race from spinning while you backed the ring nut off.

At this point it's just about evaluating if there's much in that trans worth saving
_________________
1974 Chenowth 2RL #1244 Street Legal
My other car isn't ridiculous.

[mcmscott]

[modok]

The way to take it apart is cut the ring nut off with a small die grinder and buy a new nut.

It's probably has a lot of bearings and shafts not as tight as they should be, but IMO fix it all, or run it until it's dead. No sense fixing just one link in a worn out chain.

[jsturtlebuggy]

This the sleeve that installed in the case when it is worn like yours. Also a rectangular block is bolt inside case to keep bearing race from spinning.
This was taken out of a case that they cracked the case from using reverse gear when they should not have.

_________________
Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960

[Dan_Lockwood]

I have it all torn down now, but do NOT have the shaft press apart yet. I may not tear them down any further depending on how this pinion nut spinning plays out.

I had to drive out the main pinion shaft from the housing, wood block and a small hammer supporting the opposite end while doing so. When I got it all apart, I found that there are "lugs" that are supposed to hold the pinion bearing from rotating. I think rotating is a better word than spinning in my case.

I reinstalled the pinion shaft and had to slightly tap it into place in the case. There really is NO play/slop between the bearing the case bore. BUT I can with a bit of force, rotate the bearing.

Joseph, you say this brass ring is used in an "over bored" main case for the pinion to go in to? Also you mention, "Also a rectangular block is bolt inside case to keep bearing race from spinning." I think my case would be good if I had the block to install to hold the bearing from rotating. What does this block look like?

Here's a picture of my case from the gear side.

I've been talking with Leduc Racing Performance in the greater Detroit area and he said that they've had the cases welded up at the nubs and machined back down to retain the pinion bearing housing from spinning. He's in FL for a couple more weeks, but I may take a trip down, 2 hrs, to see him and see what he can do for me.

Thanks, Dan

[jimmyhoffa]

That can be sleeved as long as there's no cracks anywhere. There may be no play, as you state, but that's actually supposed to be probably a .0015" press fit or something similar. It really won't be reliable unless that interference fit between the pinion bearing and case is restored. That bore is also supposed to be quite round.

A+ on getting in there and learning about these. Not enough amateur trans builders on here, IMO. We're lucky to have a few expert ones though.

You should need to heat the case to get it apart or together. In my situation: Space heater + License Plate + Pushrod tube guard.

_________________
1974 Chenowth 2RL #1244 Street Legal
My other car isn't ridiculous.

[jsturtlebuggy]

Dan,
It is a steel sleeve, magnet sticks to it so still may some kind of stainless steel.
The little rectangular block looks like what already there in the lower left hand corner of your picture. I don’t have the block where I can find it at the moment.
That original boss is machined off for it to be mounted with two countersunk screws.
Jimmy is correct your case is worn out, it needs to be a press fit.
_________________
Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960

[jimmyhoffa]

Joseph and Dan, I know this isn't the exact same trans or arrangement, but as far as the bearing block goes it's conceptually like this: (This is a Casting Timmy picture)

_________________
1974 Chenowth 2RL #1244 Street Legal
My other car isn't ridiculous.

[jsturtlebuggy]

That is what the block looks like on the ones I have seen Jimmy.
I also see in the picture the modification to the rear mainshaft bearing to install the larger outer diameter early bearing.
_________________
Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960