56 Old Speed Euro DeVille Influenced Build

[TomVaughan64]

[djfordmanjack]

legit questions, Tom. I think there is no simple answer. because each car is different in condition, many different weld overlap styles and designs.

In my mind it makes no sense try rust converting or primer on seams that have already swollen up some ( between the spot welds). I try to thoroughly repair, drill out weld spots and replace if necessary. When I do acid dipping, personally I use vinegar acid cleaner, in a strong solution. it does not leave the black or grey coating you observed. but I DO pressure wash all soaked parts and seams after that, AND soak or scrub with neutral detergent household cleaner. Blow dry with heat gun or laying in the sun in summer. Metal parts treated like that, stay bare metal, even for years, in my shop, if I don't touch them with bare hands.
It's a pity that you did scrub the two rust converters you tried, because the yellowish or blackish hue your parts got, was part of the chemical treatment, either sulfur or phosphor (parkerized) based rust inhibitor coating. I know it doesn't look great, but these coatings CAN provide great base coats for paint, they work like etch primer or such. I cannot speak for any single product, coz I have tried dozens, but one has to find the stuff that works well with other products. There are just so many different ways to do it.
You are correct in checking your local shops and paint /industrial supplies. if or when you find a knowledgeable sales person, you may as well have hit the jackpot.
I highly suggest to ask industrial business. you may get access with friends working in steel construction, farming machinery or such. Industrial stuff is always made to last and may even come at a more reasonable price than hobby supplies.

getting back to your initial question, yes I still do use rust converters, but not very often. for me, Nothing beats clean bare ( acid dipped) metal surface with a blasted surface for that extra grip and putting on HD epoxy primer and paint.

I do use an oil based rust penetrating called OWATROL. it creeps in every crack and may even creep upwards an inch or two in a tight seam. I take it that it is somewhat difficult to purchase in the US, since it is a European product. A friend of mine from Canada was able to find it. It will dry to the touch in a day or two but will need plenty of time to cure, so it can be painted over with epoxy products. a seam is always weeping some of the treatment somewhere. you do not want different non compatible products next to each other, and especially at a seam that is.

I had my 1964 Ford Transit van ( European opponent of the VW bus), undercarriage blasted and epoxy sealed 19 years ago... and it still looks great and has held up perfectly well. I do not drive it on salted roads, though. I don't think you will do that with your oval, either...

I want to say that these are just my personal experience, and by no means a flawless tutorial of how it has to be done. There can be many different ways that work well.
_________________
Hotrods, Fords, Veedubs and Triumph Twins !

52 Barndoor DLX Coachbuild project
55 Wolfsburg panel project, og paint Taubenblau L31
62 Dickholmer, custom color Seeblau L360
63 1500 Notch, og paint Rubin Rot L456
67 1500 Käfer, og paint Lotus weiß L282 w/red interior

[TomVaughan64]

[djfordmanjack]

Sounds good Tom. Owatrol is maybe not the holy grail in rust removal, but it can be used to great results in some cases. you'll get used to it. In case some of your other projects will be patina cars, Owatrol is a great sealer as well to old, cracked and surface rusted paint/finish. don't brush it on too thick for that application, just wipe down with a soaked rag once or twice a year. it gives a very soft, smooth, suede kind of finish to old paint. a friend of mine uses it that way on his og paint 1940 Plymouth. much better than clear coat. I use Owatrol on seams and cavities, that I cannot cut open and get access to.
_________________
Hotrods, Fords, Veedubs and Triumph Twins !

52 Barndoor DLX Coachbuild project
55 Wolfsburg panel project, og paint Taubenblau L31
62 Dickholmer, custom color Seeblau L360
63 1500 Notch, og paint Rubin Rot L456
67 1500 Käfer, og paint Lotus weiß L282 w/red interior

[TomVaughan64]

[TomVaughan64]

I have spent the last three weeks trying to make my rust dissolving chassis/big part soaking booth.

I created the skeleton of the structure from 3/4 conduit and connectors.

I have had several set backs.

The bottom row of sprinklers that I installed did not shoot high enough to reach the chassis. I replaced the bottom sprinklers with four of these garden sprinklers:

Next, the car jacks were not stable enough and the bottom plastic was not stiff enough to move the water back into the bucket. I decided to create a plywood bottom with a support structure. Unfortunately, the rain has interrupted the building and it has been going slowly. Here is what I have created so far:

I think I have a ways to go on this part of the project but it has been interesting so far. I am trying to make this booth so that it can be broken down flat and put into storage to be used on my next project. I will let you know how this goes.

Since it is raining so much, I have been working on removing the rusted metal from Floyd in the shop.

I removed the spare tire wheel well.

Here part of the spare tire are that was removed:

The stock spare tire area was 0.7mm thick. I am not sure if it was thinned by the rust or if it came from the factory a little thin. The spare tire area on the Wolfsparts was 1.0 mm thick (as advertised).

I also started to remove the inner and part of the outer front wheel well.

Before:

Removing the spot welds:

Inner firewall removed:

Outer firewall cut and mocked up:

If the rain continues, I will keep removing bad sheetmetal. Otherwise, I will continue to build my rust removing booth.
_________________
Tom

"Begin with the end in mind"
Stephen Covey

"Keep focused and seeking knowledge, you will never find disappointed, only small hiccups!"
Jimbo

56 Old Speed Euro Deville Influenced Build

[djfordmanjack]

Tom, do not use Owatrol and Epoxy at the same time ( as, within hours). Owatrol may take quite some time before you can paint over it with primer.
The other way around is no problem. paint outside seams with primer, and use Owatrol on dried epoxy. Owatrol takes some time to cure. It would probably be best to try on some of the old metal parts that you cut from the car. like the spare wheel well. You may even try all your chosen material on og overlapping parts as the strengthener piece on the spare wheel well. after you soaked part of the seam with Owatrol and stuffed others with thinned epoxy. undrill the spot welds and see how it worked. I am sure you will find your preferred method.

[TomVaughan64]

[TomVaughan64]

I have been working on replacing the rotten sections of the front firewall.

Cleaned up some of the rust.

I used sheetmetal screws to screw on the Klassic Fab repair panels. They were a little long. I will have to cut them shorter after I see how they match up with the heater channels.

I then screwed on the Virtanen Restoration Panels piece. This is a excellent piece. I still have to hammer down the flanges but the piece seems to be an exact replica.

In my limited experience so far I would have to say the first tier replacement parts are: Wolfsparts Virtanen, and DKB Metals. Klassic Fab would be in the second tier. Klassic Fab panels are good but not quite as correct as the first tier. I have not found any of the other replacement panels that I would buy again. However, keep in mind there are plenty of companies I have not tried yet.

We are going to continue to replace and fix the sheet metal body parts. I am planning on connecting everything with sheet metal screws during this stage. I am new to this and I want the chance to adjust my work as I start to work my way around the car.

I am still working on my Chassis/ Big Part Rust Dissolving Station. Here is a picture of the painted base skeleton:

Here it is complete with the plywood top. The base drops 3/4" per foot and the front part tilts inward to encourage water flow back into the bucket:

Here it is with the cage.

Next, I will wrap up the cage using plastic and velcro and continue to test out the sprinkler system.
_________________
Tom

"Begin with the end in mind"
Stephen Covey

"Keep focused and seeking knowledge, you will never find disappointed, only small hiccups!"
Jimbo

56 Old Speed Euro Deville Influenced Build

[VW_Jimbo]

Instead of screws, which buckle the sheet metal and leave a nipple. Why not try some Clecos? I love them. They leave a 3/16” hole but that is the same size bit I use to drill out spot welds!

Highly recommend them!
_________________
Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[TomVaughan64]

[tehillah1]

Nice work Tom...as we all experience there's nearly as much time making up the jigs, tools, cleaning apparatus and support mechanisms as there is in the actual work on our cars. That's a pretty amazing bathtub for your beetle.

[VW_Jimbo]

I see that the putting green has been utilized as the foundation. Hope that the drips don’t kill the grass or plastic!

Nice job!

Doug, very nicely stated! It consumes a shit ton of time! There is no way to insert that into a build thread, but it does seem like Tom has!
_________________
Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[TomVaughan64]

Things have been moving slower lately. I have been putting time into my 55 to get ready for the Kelley Park show.

This is Gerry:

For Floyd (my 56), I have been using my new sprinkler booth to remove the rust on all of the parts too big to soak.

First test was the chassis:

Sealed it up and turned it on. Opened it up occasionally to move the hose that was in the tunnel

Here are the before and after pictures:

I used this spray gun to spray the Owatrol Oil. This spray gun is a little flimsy but it worked really well inside the tunnel:

Here is a picture of the Owatrol Oil coated tunnel from the front of the tunnel. Not perfect but no new rust inside the tunnel over the past couple of weeks.

Here is the finished chassis:

I am working my way through soaking and stripping all of the other parts and fasteners on this car as I try to wrap this stripping part of the project up.

Here is the results on the gas tank:

I am going to do some dent removal and then seal up the inside of the tank.

I did some research and landed on this sealer:

Here is one of the quotes about this sealer:

I got the Petrol Blue. We'll see how it goes.
_________________
Tom

"Begin with the end in mind"
Stephen Covey

"Keep focused and seeking knowledge, you will never find disappointed, only small hiccups!"
Jimbo

56 Old Speed Euro Deville Influenced Build

[djfordmanjack]

Tom you are relentless !!! The results are nothing but amazing. Your patience in building your sprinkling booth really paid off big time. You built it so well it would be possible to sell it or the plans, or rent it out to other restorers !
I think the sprinkling booth is the new rotissery in car restoration....
_________________
Hotrods, Fords, Veedubs and Triumph Twins !

52 Barndoor DLX Coachbuild project
55 Wolfsburg panel project, og paint Taubenblau L31
62 Dickholmer, custom color Seeblau L360
63 1500 Notch, og paint Rubin Rot L456
67 1500 Käfer, og paint Lotus weiß L282 w/red interior

[TomVaughan64]