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hansh
Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2004
Posts: 615
Location: Bend, OR
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 Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2004 1:35 pm Post subject: Clutch advice |
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When I replaced the bottom-end with the one from my parts van, I just transferred everyting (i.e. tranny, clutch plate, pressure plate, flywheel, etc.). Well, the clutch has issues. I'm getting chatter when I try to start the bus moving.
The clutch that I had in previously had no issues at all. I'd like to switch them out, but I don't have much knowledge about clutches and I'm not sure what to switch and if I'll need any special tools. Which parts do I need to switch out? (I'm pretty sure that the problem isn't due to oil leaking, but I will check it out while I'm in there....I think I'm dealing with a worn clutch plate).
Also, the clutch, pressure plate, and flywheel from the other engine developed a thin layer of rust overnight before I remembered to spray them with some penetrant. How should I prep. these pieces before using them?
Thanks,
Hans |
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mightyart
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2004
Posts: 6188
Location: Portland, Oregon
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hansh
Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2004
Posts: 615
Location: Bend, OR
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2004 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| I think that there is penetrant on the one in the shed. Also, there may have been some light rust on the parts that are in the van now. I didn't know to check before I put it all in. |
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Randy in Maine
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2003
Posts: 34890
Location: The Beach
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2004 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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The flywheel needs to be "90* cross etched" with medium wet dry sandpaper kind of like honing a cylinder. Just takes a few minutes.
I would stay away from WD-40 type things and use laquer thinner to do the final clean up of all of those surfaces with no finger prints.
Just buy a new clutch plate if in doubt.
You might want to have a look at the Bowden tube to make sure it has some flex to it where the clutch cable runs through it. |
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hansh
Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2004
Posts: 615
Location: Bend, OR
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2004 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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I can handle that. I'll probably switch out all of the pieces then (pressure plate, clutch, and flywheel). ?
Hans |
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mightyart
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2004
Posts: 6188
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2004 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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Treat your clutch like you do brakes. no oils, solvents, ect. your clutch might just be slipping. Any small amount of surface rust goes away really quick when you start using it, clean as Randy says. how bad is it clatering? If you don't want to tear it all apart again, and it's not to bad it may wear off with a little use, but if its bad it could be something else. your call, don't mess anything up. If you have to take it apart, go ahead and get a new pressure plate, like Randy said, and I've always replaced the throwout bearing also. The parts are cheap enough and replacing a clutch sucks.
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Randy in Maine
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Joined: August 03, 2003
Posts: 34890
Location: The Beach
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2004 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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Amskeptic told me NEVER to change out the stock pressure plate. "You cannot buy an after market one that is better".
I told him that I always replaced them as a unit but I did not know why. It turns out my father told me that one. I called my dad and asked him why and he told me HIS father told him, but knew nothing more about it.
I am going with Colin on this one. He has like a gabillion miles on his and it works fine.
Do buy a new throwout bearing however. |
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mightyart
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2004
Posts: 6188
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2004 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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Did you change the flywheel? you don't mess with a flywheel unless it's missing teeth. the flywheel is usually balanced for the engine it is on. That's why the will have holes drilled in them at what seem like random places sometime.
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pawesty
Samba Medic
Joined: June 28, 2003
Posts: 1545
Location: Northern Vermont
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2004 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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take the shit out. spend 40 bucks and get the flywheel machined. order a clutch kit. i just installed a Sachs and it's suiting me fine. as Randy stated before, new throw out bearing(if you buy the kit it's included). clean the flywheel with brake cleaner after the machinist. change the flywheel o ring. put it all back together and drive to your hearts content.
dave
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ratwell
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Joined: April 26, 2003
Posts: 8731
Location: Victoria, BC
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2004 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Randy in Maine wrote: |
| Amskeptic told me NEVER to change out the stock pressure plate. "You cannot buy an after market one that is better". |
While true, finding one as good is still possible, at least for 228mm versions. I'm having no problem with my new German PP but I can tell Colin is passing the advice to everyone because folks are sending me free parts! Thanks, Colin.
| Quote: |
| I am going with Colin on this one. He has like a gabillion miles on his and it works fine. |
How many miles were put on the PP that wasn't as good as the original and where did it come from? I assume he has some experience with a switch over?
It's hard to argue with the mileage and don't forget the double clutching but like any part it deserves an inspection rather than a blind replacement on the premise that aftermarket parts are inferior in all circumstances.
In this case the rivets need to be checked for looseness, the straps for cracks and the friction surface for wear along with wear on the fingers.
Auto repair shops replace parts as a set. When something fails, they fix it and the mfgr of the defective part gets the bill. When half the parts are used and there is a failure the shop gets screwed so they don't go for that. That's the replacement logic.
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Last edited by ratwell on Sun Jul 18, 2004 8:41 am; edited 1 time in total |
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hansh
Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2004
Posts: 615
Location: Bend, OR
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2004 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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| mightyart wrote: |
| Did you change the flywheel? |
No, I didn't...I don't know why I was saying that I had. Anyway, this has to be a totally free repair this time. I absolutely don't have the dough for new parts, but I do have parts here that I know work.
I really think that the issue is just debris on the clutch assembly. I'm sure it had crap on it when I put it in. However, I'll clean up what I have in the shed, since I know it works, and just do a quick swap of the parts.
Thanks,
Hans |
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hansh
Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2004
Posts: 615
Location: Bend, OR
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2004 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Randy in Maine wrote: |
| The flywheel needs to be "90* cross etched" with medium wet dry sandpaper kind of like honing a cylinder. |
Is there a specific type of sandpaper that I need? For instance, a certain grit, and is there a special wet/dry sandpaper or do I just need to sand it wet using a normal dry paper? Do I sand it with the laquer thinner on it or something else and then do a final wipe with the laquer thinner?
Hans |
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Randy in Maine
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2003
Posts: 34890
Location: The Beach
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 4:45 am Post subject: |
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No special sandpaper, just a medium grit or crocus cloth like you would do body work will do it. He did it dry and then used the laquer thinner to clean it all up. It leaves a nice cross hatched pattern on the flywheel.
You guys need to realize that I am out here in the sticks when it comes to VW parts. I can't just scoot 3 miles down to the local VW FLAPS to get good quality stuff. Everything has to be ordered it seems here. Not so much as an oil filter.  |
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ratwell
Samba Member
Joined: April 26, 2003
Posts: 8731
Location: Victoria, BC
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| Randy in Maine wrote: |
| No special sandpaper, just a medium grit or crocus cloth like you would do body work will do it...It leaves a nice cross hatched pattern on the flywheel. |
You use crocus cloth when you want to polish and have no pattern. It's not the same as medium grit sandpaper.
Sanding a flywheel by hand is half assed: they warp over time due to heat. Just look at the blueing on the back of that huge piece of metal. Send it to a machine shop and have them step cut grind it using the appropriate stones. The flywheel will have the necessary flatness afterwards. Because the stone is round and rotates as the flywheel rotates it will leave a nice arc pattern. The type of stone used is usually silicone carbide with a lubricant and you end up with a smooth surface. A simple test for smooth is to run your fingernail across the surface.
Dry sanding in a cross hatch pattern by hand doesn't result in a surface like the original flywheel. Clutches hold to flywheels because of friction which comes from the pressure plate and the surface area of the flywheel and the clutch material. Not much different from the materials and surface conditions used in disc brakes. When torque requirements go up, the clutch surface area increases, they don't roughen up the flywheel some more to help it grab: that reduces the contact surface area.
| Quote: |
| He did it dry and then used the laquer thinner to clean it all up. |
Almost anything will work but brake cleaner is convenient because it comes in an aeorsol can and evaporates quickly.
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'76 Doublecab Sweden
Read the Baywindow FAQ |
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