Steering Brakes

[Dan_Lockwood]

I've done the prerequisite searches and found lots of things with steering and brake in them, but not much on "steering brakes".

On my sand rail build, 118" WB 4-seater, I'm putting disc brakes on the front and will be doing dual duty, dunes and road. I'm going to put a brake proportioning valve in the front line that should give me a 57% reduction in front brake pressure upon pedal push. Hopefully this will help in the dunes and the hard surface road from front wheel lock ups. I'm running the Ghia universal calipers front and rear, not E-brake in these calipers. I have a mechanical rear brake spring loaded release line lock valve. I plan to use it if I get out with the motor running and have to maintain no motion in the buggy. I know that they're not an E-brake as they are not a separate independent means to lock the rear calipers from the hydraulic system.

But... Being as long as the buggy is, I'm considering installation of steering brakes on the rear, of course rear! I see guys running sand trails here in MI at some speeds and when they stop sometimes, they do a rear wheel skid 180. I'm quite sure they DO NOT have E-brakes, but more likely steering brakes. Will a single lever with just locking up one rear wheel provide enough to do a skidding stop 180?

Which is preferred, single lever or dual levers? I know personal preference will enter into this, but for a novice without ever using steering brakes, which is easier, or better for cutting sharper corners on the dunes where front smoothies may not be enough for a quick sharp turn. I have more room to mount in front of my shifter box, but is that good?

Thanks in advance for your input and sharing of your experiences!

Dan

[woodsbuggy]

Hello,
As far as front brakes go, I prefer mine to be separated from the rear brakes, I have a hand brake for the fronts. The rear brakes are on the foot pedal.
For the cutter brakes I prefer a 2 handle system(when you need to stop on an incline or decline) so you can still run gas and clutch while holding both cutter brakes to take off.
Good Luck
Kenric
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The empty can rattles the most!

[Wulfthang]

I have steering brakes aka cutting brakes on my Rat Rod Trail Rail and love them. Yeah, you can do tricks with them but they're also useful like when sliding down a loose rock trail and the front steering ain't working so good. Plus, if you have one wheel stuck in mud or sand, you can lock it up to make the other side drag you out.

I custom modified mine out of a set of Drift Brakes for import sports cars. You can also buy them pretty much ready made. I have dual handles and prefer them over the single.

My Rail has a dual master cylinder brake system with a bias knob between the two instead of a proportioning valve. There was so much conflicting and negative info on them that i decided to not mess with a proportioning valve.

Mine has one M/C for the front brakes and another for the rear with a dash mounted knob to adjust the bias from front to rear.

[Dan_Lockwood]

Thanks guys!

Would you purchase the same size cutting brake cylinders as your brake master cylinder?

Dan

[jimmyhoffa]

I did. I have a 3/4" bore rear brake master cylinder and 3/4" bore cutting brakes and it feels perfect.

For what it's worth, I have 31" Dick Cepek all terrains, and I can flick the car 180 on dry pavement with the turning brake. It is extremely entertaining, even more so on loose stuff. There is a section of Hell's Revenge in Moab that I am certain I would not have made without damage, if I had not had my turning brake. I would have had to carry way too much speed to "blow over" what was stopping me.

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1974 Chenowth 2RL #1244 Street Legal
My other car isn't ridiculous.

[racecougar]

The newly installed steering brake is probably the piece of equipment I most look forward to trying out once I get my rail back on its wheels.

I used a high pressure quarter turn ball valve as a line lock for getting out while the engine is running.

Like many of the other guys, I'm running dual master cylinders for the front and rear brakes.

[oprn]

Racecougar, could you do me a favor please when you get a moment and measure the brake peddle from the bottom pivot to the center of the foot pad. Then again from the bottom pivot to the master cylinder rod pin. I am curious to learn what the peddle ratio is on those dual master cylinder kits is.

Thanks in advance!
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We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[jimmyhoffa]

Oprn, I have the old Neal pedal set which the CNC is a copy of which the EMPI is a copy of, and they are all 6:1, give or take a fraction. My Wilwood forged pedals are as well.
_________________
1974 Chenowth 2RL #1244 Street Legal
My other car isn't ridiculous.

[racecougar]

I'd expect it to be 6:1, but I can certainly double check it this weekend. It only takes a minute to pull the nose off.

[oprn]

Thanks! I suspected as much, the stock peddle ratio I believe is 5/1 so you need a bit more mechanical advantage to push 2 master cylinders. Makes sense to me.
_________________
We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[Wulfthang]

I don't know what the ratio is but it does require more pressure with the duals. Not a whole lot but noticeable. It feels good though. More definitive.

[racecougar]

As Jim said, it's 6:1. Just measured tonight. Distances measured out to ~1-1/2" and ~9".

[oprn]

Thank you!
_________________
We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[BFB]

[jimmyhoffa]

It's a Fortin # 01FS-CAST. Greatest thing since sliced breakfast meats.

Combined with my custom linkage with machined shifter coupler yoke, it ALMOST makes an 091 not shift like a dump truck. Almost. Maybe, like a Mercedes dump truck.
_________________
1974 Chenowth 2RL #1244 Street Legal
My other car isn't ridiculous.

[racecougar]

[jimmyhoffa]

Yeaaaah buddy. Grab a handful. 🤘 (This was pre-steering stabilizer install so I'm all over the place. I run a much tighter game now.)


Link

_________________
1974 Chenowth 2RL #1244 Street Legal
My other car isn't ridiculous.

[Wulfthang]

There is an area near my house that floods regularly. Over the years, the constant water laying on the land has flattened it out totally, like a pool table. If you time it just right and hit it at the right time, the standing water is about a quarter inch thick. The fine Caliche on top combined with the water makes it as slick as a frozen lake.

It's perfect for playing around with the steering brakes. Bootlegger 180's, power slides, wild spins, etc. are all, possible and pretty easy on the slick surface. Look up some of the get-away moves used by the old Moonshine Drivers. They had some wild moves.