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DztBugy
Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2024
Posts: 22
Location: Mud Springs AZ
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 Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2024 10:42 am Post subject: 1300 performance build |
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My buggy is a stock 1966 built back in 1969.
It has been stored for 45 years now getting it back on the road.
I would like to hop it up as a peroid build from 1969.
Not looking to increase from 1300cc. |
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76963
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2024 10:47 am Post subject: Re: 1300 performace build |
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Bolt on only or a complete rebuild?
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
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oldslow
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Joined: July 27, 2019
Posts: 108
Location: Cape Cod
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John Moxon
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Joined: March 07, 2004
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Location: Southampton U.K.
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Mr. Wog
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Joined: November 27, 2009
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Location: Southern NH
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DztBugy
Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2024
Posts: 22
Location: Mud Springs AZ
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2024 3:26 pm Post subject: Re: 1300 performace build |
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Great links
I see a bunch of stuff to order.
Opps the way back machine's fluxcapactier is still on back order.
I have no problem spliting the case for a cam change.
I ran a 32 NDIX in my last Bug 25 years ago. so that will be a must on the buggy.
I have been out of the VW scene for a long time so I guess I start over as a Newby with doumb questions.
Can I change the 6 volt start gear to be compadable with a 200mm 12 volt Type4 flywheel?
If not it will be two batterys and a 12 volt starter.
Is there a 77mm stroker piston avaiable?
If I could build a 77x76 that would be great.
Thanks
Last edited by DztBugy on Thu Mar 07, 2024 7:15 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2015
Posts: 719
Location: Rialto. CA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 2:33 pm Post subject: Re: 1300 performace build |
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| DztBugy wrote: |
Great links
I see a bunch of stuff to order.
Opps the way back machine's fluxcapactier is still on back order.
I have no problem spliting the case for a cam change.
I ran a 32 NDIX in my last Bug 25 years ago. so that will be a must on the buggy.
I have been out of the VW scene for a long time so I guess I start over as a Newby with doumb questions.
Can I change the 6 volt start gear to be compadable with a 200mm 12 volt Type flywheel?
If not it will be two batterys and a 12 volt starter.
Is there a 77mm stroker piston avaiable?
If I could build a 77x76 that would be great.
Thanks |
If your engines is a 1300cc 69mm crank 77mm pistons you can most likely go with a 74mm crank and use the 77mm pistons but why not just go with bigger jugs 83mm and 85.5mm jugs would slip in your case no machine work ... |
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DztBugy
Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2024
Posts: 22
Location: Mud Springs AZ
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| Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 6:20 pm Post subject: Re: 1300 performance build |
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I want to keep the thick 77mm cylinders.
This buggy weighs about 1200lbs.
It goes perrty good with the stock 1300.
My last VW was a 1969 Type1 with 1500cc done in what I called full body Baja, now they call it Class 11 look.
The engine was 1645cc 83 x76.
83mm pistons were a set of 83 Strokers from Old Man Coy's Stash @ Speed Unlimited.
I used a 76mm waterboxer crank so that I got the 5 bolt flywheel.
The combo worked great.
I now want to do the same with the 1300cc 77mm but using a 69mm wbx crank.
If I can get Stroker 77mm pistons the 76mm WBX will drop inplace of the 69mm WBX.
I have found The Harley 883 pistons in .030 are 77mm so depending on the actual bore of my cylinders I can use them
Some rough calculations
STOCK STROKE 1600cc
Stock Overall
85.5 Stock Pistons Compression Height: 39.50mm
Type 1 Rod 137mm
Split Case half 34.5 69mm stroke
TOTAL 211mm
HD 883 PISTON
30.7 Comp height
Split Case half 38mm 76 mm Stroke
5.6 Rod 142.24
Total 210.7 mm
I would have to rebush the rods to 20mm. |
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oldslow
Samba Member
Joined: July 27, 2019
Posts: 108
Location: Cape Cod
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2015
Posts: 719
Location: Rialto. CA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 9:08 pm Post subject: Re: 1300 performance build |
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| Anything wbx is not vintage speed ....performance forum is where your build needs to be at/ in ..... |
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DztBugy
Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2024
Posts: 22
Location: Mud Springs AZ
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2024 9:08 am Post subject: Re: 1300 performance build |
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I want to build a 1300 with Single port heads, Single carb, non doghouse shroud, SVAD dizzy, 6 volt Gen, ect.
That is a vintage style build.
Drilling and tapping for 8 dowels is ok but using a crank that uses 5 bolts is not ok.
Using a WBX in a vintage engine build is no different an using a counterweight 8 dowell crank. Except the WBX is a factory part.
Now if someone wants to build a Stroker 40hp using a 1600 crank is a like go for it, sounds great.
The 40 hp guys wanting to build a stroker might be thinking Hmm never thought about a WBX crank but now I have another option.
Looking outside the box is the Hotrodder way. |
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2015
Posts: 719
Location: Rialto. CA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2024 10:47 am Post subject: Re: 1300 performance build |
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| DztBugy wrote: |
I want to build a 1300 with Single port heads, Single carb, non doghouse shroud, SVAD dizzy, 6 volt Gen, ect.
That is a vintage style build.
Drilling and tapping for 8 dowels is ok but using a crank that uses 5 bolts is not ok.
Using a WBX in a vintage engine build is no different an using a counterweight 8 dowell crank. Except the WBX is a factory part.
Now if someone wants to build a Stroker 40hp using a 1600 crank is a like go for it, sounds great.
The 40 hp guys wanting to build a stroker might be thinking Hmm never thought about a WBX crank but now I have another option.
Looking outside the box is the Hotrodder way. |
The point of building a vintage speed is to use parts or replica parts of its time....wbx is from 1982 not 1960s way past its time unless you have proof that a guys in its time was doing 5 bolt cranks than your good to go...
8 dowels cranks are allowed since porsche and denzel were already doing that in the 50s and 60s ...
Okrasa, made 69mm cranks 74, 78,and 82mm cranks and let's not forget roller cranks...
Vw in 1963 type 2 bus had the first 1500cc 69x83
Type 3 August 1965 came out with the 1600cc 69x85.5
All those crank sizes even aftermarket cranks are allowed in vintage speed because they were available in its time ...
Pistons/ cylinders are what was available in its time you can use other cylinders / piston sizes like covair ,motorcycles , empi,,porsche just along as they were in its time or before its time . Not after ...
You can build whatever floats your boat its your dream and idea go for it ...the point in vintage speed was and to use what was available in its time or parts before its time not just vw parts any manufacturer car company .....picture yourself in the 60s building this engine you would be looking for parts in its time or before 1960s .. not the 1980s ....I get what the point its just 5 bolts mounting but it's just how it is ....
Bearing sizes are open since they are just bearings ...
Only modern parts would be
H beam rods are ok ..since guys in the 60s would weld their rods for Strength so they pass ...
Straight cut gears are ok ... don't do much beside whine and help the thrust on the case ..... |
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DztBugy
Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2024
Posts: 22
Location: Mud Springs AZ
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2024 12:58 pm Post subject: Re: 1300 performance build |
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OK just think of the crank as a one off special prototype crankshaft.
Other than the crank the rest will be " Vintage Style Parts"
The reason I am using a "Special Crank" is I do not like the Gland nut and dowels securing the flywheel. |
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Alstrup
Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2007
Posts: 7229
Location: Videbaek Denmark
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2024 5:57 am Post subject: Re: 1300 performance build |
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| DztBugy wrote: |
I want to keep the thick 77mm cylinders.
This buggy weighs about 1200lbs.
It goes perrty good with the stock 1300.
My last VW was a 1969 Type1 with 1500cc done in what I called full body Baja, now they call it Class 11 look.
The engine was 1645cc 83 x76.
83mm pistons were a set of 83 Strokers from Old Man Coy's Stash @ Speed Unlimited.
I used a 76mm waterboxer crank so that I got the 5 bolt flywheel.
The combo worked great.
I now want to do the same with the 1300cc 77mm but using a 69mm wbx crank.
If I can get Stroker 77mm pistons the 76mm WBX will drop inplace of the 69mm WBX.
I have found The Harley 883 pistons in .030 are 77mm so depending on the actual bore of my cylinders I can use them
Some rough calculations
STOCK STROKE 1600cc
Stock Overall
85.5 Stock Pistons Compression Height: 39.50mm
Type 1 Rod 137mm
Split Case half 34.5 69mm stroke
TOTAL 211mm
HD 883 PISTON
30.7 Comp height
Split Case half 38mm 76 mm Stroke
5.6 Rod 142.24
Total 210.7 mm
I would have to rebush the rods to 20mm. |
Wrong. a 76 mm WBX crank will not drop right in a stock type 1 case. Rocky Jennings have a way with using a mix of bearings which can make it happen. If you do not have those the only way is to align bore the case, twice. Once for bearing 2,3 and 4, and once for bearing 1, plus the rear main seal area/diameter. (We did that back in the days when US cranks were expensive for us EU guys) nowadays it doesnt pay off unless you want to prove a point.The gland nut ( dowel attachment to the flywheel is not a problem on this side of 200 hp. The WBX/type4 5 bolt arrangement needs help from about 140 hp. Sooo, 
Long rods and short pistons help tremendeusly in getting enough clearance between crank and pistons as well as rod to piston clearance. I do not recal the shape & size of thpose pistons, but you may be almost home free on that account.
'5,6" rods on a 76 stroke is a RR of 1,87 which is withing decent limits. Personally i like the RR to be lower, especially on small engines. But that is a personal observation.
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DztBugy
Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2024
Posts: 22
Location: Mud Springs AZ
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2024 8:38 am Post subject: Re: 1300 performance build |
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It was 30+ years ago when I built my 1645 engine, but when I did it. I had the thrust area on the WBX crank cut flat and used type1 main bearings.
I may of had the center bearing cut for type 4 and I can not recall cutting the rear main seal.
I had my machine work done at Rimco and they had never done a WBX intoa Type1 before I built it.
Stock rods were use with the 83mm Stroker piston Toms
Dad had sitting on the shelf.
Building a 1416 would be just for funs sake as anyone can build a 2180.
Still looking for stroker 77mm pistons any ideas other than the HD 883's? |
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2015
Posts: 719
Location: Rialto. CA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2024 9:33 am Post subject: Re: 1300 performance build |
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| DztBugy wrote: |
It was 30+ years ago when I built my 1645 engine, but when I did it. I had the thrust area on the WBX crank cut flat and used type1 main bearings.
I may of had the center bearing cut for type 4 and I can not recall cutting the rear main seal.
I had my machine work done at Rimco and they had never done a WBX intoa Type1 before I built it.
Stock rods were use with the 83mm Stroker piston Toms
Dad had sitting on the shelf.
Building a 1416 would be just for funs sake as anyone can build a 2180.
Still looking for stroker 77mm pistons any ideas other than the HD 883's? |
Try JE pistons ..they can make you custom pistons 👇👇👇
https://www.jepistons.com/ |
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DztBugy
Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2024
Posts: 22
Location: Mud Springs AZ
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| Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2024 9:56 am Post subject: Re: 1300 performance build |
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Having pistons made is an easy way to go but thats to easy.
I find it is more fun to figure how to make off the shelf parts and figuring out how to make them work. |
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