A question about VW's past and its present issues

[Ousned]

For the past few months I've been thinking of buying my first car. As this is one of the costliest single things one typically buys in life, I've been doing a lot of research.

Obviously I've heard about the VW emissions cheating. But the more I dig into the story, the stranger it becomes.

It's first of all very disappointing. Not the least for ethical reasons: from what I understand, these cars were -engineered- to cheat on the emissions tests. These were engineers who knowingly wrote the software to do the cheating. Further, there were people who worked along with those engineers and people who supervised them and people who condoned their actions and perhaps even people who suggested the cheating in the first place, if it wasn't the engineers' idea to do that themselves. In short, these were not the actions of a few bad apples, but instead the result of collusion of many VW employees, all of which were acting very unethically. This is really disappointing that nobody had the ball bearings to speak up, and that the scandal only came to light by accident. Or maybe it wasn't a question of ball bearings, but rather lack of a conscience. I can't tell.

I'm a college student studying engineering. If I weren't being trained to be scientifically literate, I imagine this is the kind of stuff that might predispose me to think that the moon landings were a hoax and that Big Pharma is hiding breakthrough cancer drugs because it's more profitable to keep people sick than to cure them. These are all examples of things that require something of a mass conspiracy of many people at all different levels of an organization, not individual actors trying to mess things up on their own.

But then I wondered, is it really surprising after all, to expect this kind of unethical behavior from the company that once built cars for the losing side of WWII? I must've fallen asleep that day in history class, but I read on my own that VW, Benz, Porsche, and BMW were all major participants in the German war effort. It's mind-boggling to me right now that these companies, all of which are guilty of committing war crimes against Allied forces and civilians, were allowed to persist after the war. What's more, BMW and Benz are even considered symbols of luxury today.

Wtf? Can somebody explain this to me?
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REMOVED

[finster]

hmmm, a lot to unpack and a first post so a strong whiff of trolling too...

yes, it's disappointing that VAG chose to cheat. but then if they couldn't easily make a compliant diesel then others will have cheated also. oh look, nissan/renault have been found out too. car makers exist to make money. they have no interest in making 'the best that mankind can make' because they are looking at turnover and profit. they didn't get to the top by being nice.
as for linking it to a national trait, well that's a slippery slope. what about IBM, ford maybe even nasa? making weapons isn't a crime, especially if you call it defence.
the reality is that we are all complicit in this. do you agonize that your clothes were made in a sweat shop? that african children slaved to obtain the elements to make your mobile? no, we all look the other way or delude ourselves - 'look, the chickens on this label are in a nice farmyard...'

so I suggest you choose a car based on reliability/practicality surveys and styling rather than fall into the rabbit hole of ethical issues.
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"we're here on Earth to fart around" kurt vonnegut

nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect...

[Glenn]

[oprn]

A couple points here. VW was not the first and will not be the last automotive company to dabble in deceit and lies. That has been going on as long as there have been roads to drive on and there are more was to practice this type of marketing being invented every day!

Being a one man ethics enforcer is a dead end. Put it all behind you or it will drive you off the deep end and go choose a vehicle that suites your needs from a dealer that has a track record of excellent customer service.

End of story.
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We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[Zundfolge1432]

Well here’s some dirty laundry that you could dwell on. All you can do is learn from it. Very ugly isn’t it?

The next 3 pages are pg 86 of my gallery photos. Don’t buy a Toyota they did a number of ugly things too.

[Cusser]

[vwracerdave]

Fuck your sentimental moral values about the War and the past. If I was buying a brand new car today it WOULD NOT be a Volkswagen. They are junk. If you live in the USA than buy an American made car.
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1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK

[KTPhil]

[oprn]

And you have to be pretty thick/stubborn/daft not to recognize there is more than a little protectionism for the domestic market in the diesel-gate fiasco when a 12 mpg domestic diesel passes emissions and a 60 mpg foreign car does not...

It's not just VW that rigged things, the testing method was rigged too. Two cheaters in the same poker game but the guy who owns the house gets to deciding who is right...

There is nothing in my view that VW produces for sale that stands out above Toyota, Mazda, Nissan, Subaru anymore in my view. As for the domestic market - do they even make cars anymore? All I ever see on the lots is 4 X 4 trucks and SUVs. Not interested!
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We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[Glenn]

[calvinater]

Still waiting for that econobox 'lil truck, like '74 Toyota 4 speed Lisa and I drove across the country in in '86.

Can you even get a vehicle without a tv screen?
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"Albatross"!

[Glenn]

[Abscate]

As a PSA I tape a picture of a clear road behind each rear facing camera I see.

Looking for moral validation in the corporate world is a futile exercise.
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.ssS!

[finster]

interested to see if op comes back or has just 'wound us up to watch us go'

quote - 'how about Ford, started and at the time led by an avowed supporter of Hitler and his anti-Semitic views.'
I think it was the other way round...
_________________
"we're here on Earth to fart around" kurt vonnegut

nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect...

[KTPhil]

[Cusser]

[Glenn]

[EverettB]

Admin note:
The original thread starter has been banned as he was a spammer.
He came back and added some spam links to his profile and original post, which have been removed.

I'm leaving this thread for now since there's some discussion going on but it may be locked if it turns into pointless arguing back and forth.
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[Busstom]

[MuzzcoVW]

To the Troll... VW is one of many that have been doing this sort of thing, they just drew the unlucky straw to get made an examle of. They probably pissed in the wrong politicians cheerios or something. You know the type, the same ones who try to prosecute a supposed crime... all while getting caught themselves. As for VWs problems, their largest issue is that they don't listen to the customers especially in some larger markets like the U.S. The CEO says the roof is on fire at VW. They should listen to those of us who want choice, and not be forced to buy what they push OR like many, move on from VW. Just a terrible marketing plan