T4 engine off-road ?

[BFB]

I used to have a tube buggy ( wasnt really a rail, more similar to a burro ) that had a T4 engine in it and it did fine but i never took it serious off reading, i plan to build a rail that ill get a little more serious with and im considering building a T4 instead of a T1 engine and im wondering about the pros & cons to using the T4. Obviously with the exhaust you lose a little ground clearance. Does the fan being lower suck up more dirt? Could you cross water that was high enough to get into the fan without damaging it? An upright conversion would take care of those “problems “ ( if they were problems ) but isn’t the T4 fan better? And you lose the T4 alternator with the upright conversion…
_________________
Forced induction can overcome a lot of obsticles that gets in it's way
"You are the Engineer and the Mechanic.  
Build it your way not the way someone else does it. Their way might not work for you." - clonebug
An interesting thing happens in forums where everyone starts parroting the same thing and "common knowledge" takes over.
“ The monkey see monkey do mentality seems to run deep in VW people. "Gene Berg said it was so 30 years ago so thats the way it is" “ - bdkw1

[oprn]

The difference in the exhaust is very small, in the order of an inch or so. Definitely no more hanging below than a 1.5 quart sump on a type 1 engine. But you will be running a skid pan under the engine regardless for serious off road.

As for the fan being more efficient... is that it or is it the type 4 heads cool better?

As for the fan sucking in more dust... it hasn't been a big problem on my street Buggy and as long as the engine doesn't leak oil it should all just blow through. I have used a pressure washer to clean off the visible dust accumulation on the fan. The type 1 fan on my sand rail collects dust too but it's out of sight out of mind.

As for submerging the engine it water... you are on your own there. I would not recommend it no matter which engine. Water sucked into the flywheel/clutch, past the seals on the engine/transaxle, temperature shocking the cylinders... help yourself, your money.

The advantage of a stock type 4 engine rebuild in my experience is that it puts out the same power as a mild type 1 build but at 1/2 the cost or less and will last longer. If you want a tricked up type 4 then that's a whole different ball game.
_________________
We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[Vanapplebomb]

The exhaust doesn’t need to reduce ground clearance. Yes, it exits the underside of the head, but keep in mind, the bottom of the case is a good ways below that point. Most headers made the turn above the bottom of the case, so they are not the limiting factory.

Personally, I love a T4 for off road driving. Great driving engines with a wide power band.

As mentioned above by oprn, good value for money. A nice mild T4 is pretty budget friendly to build, and will hold up great if you build it right.
_________________
1800 Type 4 Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021

[oprn]

Here is my exhaust system. Nothing hanging down here.

This is with the engine cage in place. As you can see from the gravel rash the cage hits first.

Yes this is a street Buggy but I would have no concerns taking this exhaust system off road. With your skills you should have no difficulty building something equally as good.

In fact... old body man... I challenge you to do one better! I have 2 1/2 days invested in building this one to fit inside the cage.

_________________
We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[oprn]

What about it BFB?

Put that type 4 in that rail and lets see what you come up with. I love seeing ingenuity, imagination and innovation applied vs off the shelf bolt on stuff. That gets old.
_________________
We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[BFB]

[oprn]

That makes the exhaust system even simpler.

Maybe you could adapted a duct of some sort for the fan similar to the type 3.
_________________
We had the stone age, the bronze age, the industrial age and now we are in the age of mass deception and mind control for corporate profit. (The mass media age)

[BFB]

[Vanapplebomb]

I haven’t had any issues with my stock fan shroud. In the fall I will get the occasional leaf that gets stuck to the air screen, but I have never had the inlet get blocked.

My opinion of water is that there are worse things that can happen to the engine if water is high enough to get sucked into the fan or submerge the alternator. Cylinder heads don’t like temperature shock. Being quenched from 350deg so rapidly can cause them to warp and even crack.
_________________
1800 Type 4 Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021

[typ914]

I had the same idea of putting a type4 in a buggy. Are there any threads out where someone has documented theirs?

[Vanapplebomb]

Piece of cake. I have done it to mine and several others.
_________________
1800 Type 4 Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021

[BFB]

Yeh, it’s not hard to do ive done a couple. Just a few little things to know, and some clearancing if you stuff a 228mm flywheel into a bellhousing that wasnt made for it. Haha!
I boosted an 1800 T4 i put in a buggy, only like 7lbs. It was ok, nothing to write home about.
_________________
Forced induction can overcome a lot of obsticles that gets in it's way
"You are the Engineer and the Mechanic.  
Build it your way not the way someone else does it. Their way might not work for you." - clonebug
An interesting thing happens in forums where everyone starts parroting the same thing and "common knowledge" takes over.
“ The monkey see monkey do mentality seems to run deep in VW people. "Gene Berg said it was so 30 years ago so thats the way it is" “ - bdkw1

[Vanapplebomb]

That’s a good size for that sort of a thing. North of 96mm bore gets more challenging to boost. Not impossible, but you start running into sealing issues.

To me, the T4 engines are the ultimate air cooled VW driving engine, but not naturally suited to large bore turbo performance engines. Near stock bore and strikers do better for turbo on a T4, but I personally would never build one myself.
_________________
1800 Type 4 Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021