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Help! Unknowingly bought a Grenade Engine Xtreme
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kermitthefrog
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2024 7:10 pm    Post subject: Help! Unknowingly bought a Grenade Engine Xtreme Reply with quote

Have been rebuilding a 1970 VW chassis with a kit car body on it. The car came with a 1600 single port that was completely froze, no amount of transmission fluid or Marvel freed it, even heated with a torch and it didn't come. Finally decided to give up on a rebuild and looked for turnkey engines online (engine tin and other parts were so far gone they weren't worth saving.) I was young, stupid, and most importantly broke. I bought a re-man GEX 1600 DP bc it was the cheapest option, even without getting my core charge back.

That was almost 3 years ago now. Life got in the way of the build, the engine has ran 4 times total since i bought it. Now, I'm finishing it and hoping to drive the car. I've unfortunately learned of the many warnings and horror stories about GEX in the last year, well out of my warranty period. With less than 40 miles on the engine, i have yet to have a problem but I am seriously concerned that I someday MAY/WILL.

Alongside praying to the air cooled gods that I managed to luck out and get the one engine that they built properly, is there anything preemptive that i should do to hopefully prevent sudden death, and what symptoms/problems should i keep an eye out for. Anyone with more experience and willing to offer advice, I am all ears.

Some background info, idk if this will help or not:
VW case, not any aftermarket case. Has usual slow leaks on valve covers and on one oil sump bolt.
Currently running 10W-30 Castrol GTX full synthetic with zinc, normal air temp during my driving season is about 65-85 degrees in NY where I am.
Pict-34 single carb. Engine is bone stock except air filter and exhaust.
Running J-Tubes with a single Empi quiet muffler. I am getting plugs for the hot air holes in the fan shroud.
Engine does not have the lower shrouding that would go above heater boxes. It does have the air diverters that go on the underside, between the jugs. Does not have thermostat or flaps on fan shroud.
Car is equipped with an oil pressure gauge, tach, and amp meter
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Glenn Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2024 7:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Help! Unknowingly bought a Grenade Engine Xtreme Reply with quote

Fyi, GEX is out of business.

Where in NY?
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DesertSasquatchXploration
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2024 7:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Help! Unknowingly bought a Grenade Engine Xtreme Reply with quote

Lets have some faith that the engine is ok. Thumbs Up

Make sure you have a full understanding on how to adjust valves.

10-30 is great that's the only weight you need for the life of the engine. Synthetic adds nothing to the table but that topic has been beat to death here.

Valve covers gaskets are glued in place with contact cement NOT SILICONE don't let others tell you otherwise. If done right they don't leak.

You need a warm intake air supply to run correctly. The stock 34pict can drop 40degs thru the carb if its 80 outside the engine is getting 40 deg almost frozen air it will run like crap 60deg air before the carb its popping, stalling etc not a fun time. The heat risers need to be working correctly that's really important. need to be clear.

Your oil Sump leak needs to be addressed chances are they used a beat to hell used sump plate make sure you have a good flat one and the right copper washers thread sealant helps a ton.
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oprn
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2024 5:13 am    Post subject: Re: Help! Unknowingly bought a Grenade Engine Xtreme Reply with quote

The first and foremost advice I would give to anyone running a kit car... make 100% sure that there is a separation of spent cooling air from the fresh air for the cooling fan. What I mean is that you MUST have a completely sealed engine compartment to prevent air from recirculating that has been heated by the engine and exhaust system. Most full bodied kit cars that I have seen neglect this important concept. The result is a cooked engine no matter who built it!
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johnnyvw164
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2024 5:42 am    Post subject: Re: Help! Unknowingly bought a Grenade Engine Xtreme Reply with quote

a picture of the engine compartment would probably help point out any issues that should be addressed
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nsracing
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2024 6:02 am    Post subject: Re: Help! Unknowingly bought a Grenade Engine Xtreme Reply with quote

A broken clock is right twice a day. Laughing

It could be a jewel motor there. Just take some compression and see where it is. Don't despair too early. Petesakes.
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Dusty1
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2024 9:57 am    Post subject: Re: Help! Unknowingly bought a Grenade Engine Xtreme Reply with quote

kermitthefrog wrote:
Some background info, idk if this will help or not:
VW case, not any aftermarket case. Has usual slow leaks on valve covers and on one oil sump bolt.
Currently running 10W-30 Castrol GTX full synthetic with zinc, normal air temp during my driving season is about 65-85 degrees in NY where I am.
Pict-34 single carb. Engine is bone stock except air filter and exhaust.
Running J-Tubes with a single Empi quiet muffler. I am getting plugs for the hot air holes in the fan shroud.
Engine does not have the lower shrouding that would go above heater boxes. It does have the air diverters that go on the underside, between the jugs. Does not have thermostat or flaps on fan shroud.
Car is equipped with an oil pressure gauge, tach, and amp meter


Don't use synthetic oil until the engine is well broken in. I figure 20,000 miles is good enough.

Synthetic oil wasn't widely available until well after the last aircooled VW was imported into the U.S.. Regardless, it may not break in properly on synthetic.

Don't run the engine at all until you plug the heater spigots on the fan shroud. That's like running a Chevy with the radiator hoses disconnected. Plug them with duct tape if you're in a hurry.

Don't worry about your GEX motor until you have something to worry about.


"Perfect is the enemy of good (enough)!"

Thousands if not hundreds of thousands of hippies rebuilt these things years ago with the Idiot Book in one hand and a baggie in the other. There are dozens of specialists here who can tell you how to build a VW motor exactly precisely right according to their own Secret Recipe. Turns out you can screw it up pretty badly and still not end up with a "grenade engine".

Even though GEX acquired a shit reputation it's likely they built as many motors if not more motors than many if not most of the "big players" here. Although I have witnessed exceptions I find it incredible anyone can build VW motors all day every day and still be so careless and inept they can't build mostly good ones. Good enough, that is.

Even if your GEX motor blows hot oily chunks the line in the sand is $300 for a core motor in New York. I could point you towards several good ones for substantially less than that. For example the last two cores I picked up in Syracuse were built on Mexican and Brazilian replacement cases. Good stuff!
I got 'em for chump change.

.
.


Last edited by Dusty1 on Wed Apr 24, 2024 10:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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kermitthefrog
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2024 10:00 am    Post subject: Re: Help! Unknowingly bought a Grenade Engine Xtreme Reply with quote

DesertSasquatchXploration wrote:
Lets have some faith that the engine is ok. Thumbs Up

Make sure you have a full understanding on how to adjust valves.

10-30 is great that's the only weight you need for the life of the engine. Synthetic adds nothing to the table but that topic has been beat to death here.

Valve covers gaskets are glued in place with contact cement NOT SILICONE don't let others tell you otherwise. If done right they don't leak.

You need a warm intake air supply to run correctly. The stock 34pict can drop 40degs thru the carb if its 80 outside the engine is getting 40 deg almost frozen air it will run like crap 60deg air before the carb its popping, stalling etc not a fun time. The heat risers need to be working correctly that's really important. need to be clear.

Your oil Sump leak needs to be addressed chances are they used a beat to hell used sump plate make sure you have a good flat one and the right copper washers thread sealant helps a ton.


Still holding out faith, mostly wanted info on how to keep the engine in the best shape it can be.

I have valve adjustment experience from working on motorcycles, small engines, and some older cars. I have a Chiltons Manual for the engine as well. I've yet to pull the valve covers. Why use contact cement instead of silicone?
I plan to address the sump leak when I change the oil, planning to do so within the first 500ish miles or so. I have thread sealant, will have to look into the copper washers.
Heat risers are installed and working with no known leaks.
The engine compartment is notably not sealed. I am going to put heat wrap on the headers and exhaust pipes to help lower engine compartment temps. The car does have a doghouse syle fan shroud if that tells anything.
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Dan_Lockwood
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2024 10:47 am    Post subject: Re: Help! Unknowingly bought a Grenade Engine Xtreme Reply with quote

I'm just learning along with you here... Smile

But, so far, the only sump plate nuts I've seen in any type are the "acorn" style where they are a sealed nut on one end. It looks like you have the copper washers on the studs now, but oil can and will migrate down the threads and through the nut. With the nuts you have, you may not be able to stop the oil from seeping down the studs. Just upgrade one nut at a time to the VW style acorn type nuts and you'll probably solve your seeping issue.

Dan
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nsracing
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2024 11:08 am    Post subject: Re: Help! Unknowingly bought a Grenade Engine Xtreme Reply with quote

Engine looks promising. And where is the rear tin in the engine bay? Find that and install or you will cook that motor.
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oprn
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2024 11:29 am    Post subject: Re: Help! Unknowingly bought a Grenade Engine Xtreme Reply with quote

kermitthefrog wrote:

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Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

That is what I expected to see and that is exactly what you do not want. The best built VW air cooled engine in the world will not last more that a short time sucking in and recycling all the hot air that car is going to feed it! Wrapping the exhaust will only reduce a small part of the problem. That is not enough. The lower air needs to be COMPLETELY isolated from the engine compartment.

Also there needs to be an air inlet on the top or sides of the car to let cool air into the cooling fan and carb. The Beetle had the grill below the back glass and in later years louvers in the deck lid. I have no idea what you have for that but you need something like that too.
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Last edited by oprn on Wed Apr 24, 2024 11:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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ORANGECRUSHer
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2024 11:29 am    Post subject: Re: Help! Unknowingly bought a Grenade Engine Xtreme Reply with quote

In my opinion that is a good sump plate. When you change the oil get everything good and clean and use a nice gasket (some are just paper which is silly). Then assemble everything as clean as you can. Then just use the big drain and don't mess with the plate. I have that plate on my engine too. If you happen to have a oil filter pump or decide to run a remote oil filter, then you can possibly never mess with the plate again which is my plan.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2024 11:36 am    Post subject: Re: Help! Unknowingly bought a Grenade Engine Xtreme Reply with quote

Last summer I bought a core longblock from an old VW mechanic for what I thought was a good price. Turns out it had hydraulic lifters and a GEX sticker on it. I'm not too worried as this is a parts engine and as long as the surfaces all look good whats the difference? Not sure what to think about the hydraulic lifter situation yet.

Did GEX make cases? Or did they just assemble engines that didn't have a good rep?
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2024 11:44 am    Post subject: Re: Help! Unknowingly bought a Grenade Engine Xtreme Reply with quote

Wrapping the exhaust will only serve to drastically shorten the life of the exhaust. The pipes will cook themselves and start flaking and disintegrate in short order.

Get the engine compartment sealed up properly like the factory did, the exhaust system isn’t contributing to any overheating issue.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2024 12:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Help! Unknowingly bought a Grenade Engine Xtreme Reply with quote

nsracing wrote:
Engine looks promising. And where is the rear tin in the engine bay? Find that and install or you will cook that motor.


Sealing the engine bay is next on my list. Bradley kit cars didn't have any sort of seal around the motor so I'm gonna be making something from scratch. There is decent airflow into it from the hood scoop but I'm going to find some sheet metal and make a seal before i do any major driving.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2024 1:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Help! Unknowingly bought a Grenade Engine Xtreme Reply with quote

Excellent!
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2024 1:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Help! Unknowingly bought a Grenade Engine Xtreme Reply with quote

You might want to get a thermostat and some sled tins too.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2024 2:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Help! Unknowingly bought a Grenade Engine Xtreme Reply with quote

ORANGECRUSHer wrote:
Did GEX make cases? Or did they just assemble engines that didn't have a good rep?


GEX was a major importer of used European engines in the 1980s. German automobile inspections were far more stringent than in the U.S. at the time. Net result was containers full of good low mileage air and watercooled VW motors salvaged from real German Volkswagens.

Many of the "weird" VW engine codes such as AB or AD came in from Europe via GEX.

It's likely that many European dual port 1300s came in through GEX.

GEX was never a manufacturer. They were a recycler.

Towards the end GEX functioned as a relatively large scale rebuilder. They sourced engine cores in the U.S. (long) after European supplies dried up. They may have sourced cores in Mexico, I don't know. They were paying $150 for good dual port cores towards the end. As you may have noticed $150 doesn't buy much for VW parts. Turns out it's no way to keep a rebuilder in business.

kermitthefrog wrote:
nsracing wrote:
Engine looks promising. And where is the rear tin in the engine bay? Find that and install or you will cook that motor.


Sealing the engine bay is next on my list. Bradley kit cars didn't have any sort of seal around the motor so I'm gonna be making something from scratch. There is decent airflow into it from the hood scoop but I'm going to find some sheet metal and make a seal before i do any major driving.


Some of the Porsche 365 kits came with a slab of fiberglass to seal the gap. Fiberglass sheet is available as FR4 short for "flame resistent composition #4". It's light green circuit board material. .125" thick FR4 is almost bulletproof. Thicker material is available but it's overkill for your application.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2024 4:38 am    Post subject: Re: Help! Unknowingly bought a Grenade Engine Xtreme Reply with quote

These were "Kit cars". You bought the basic body and finished building the car. Part of finishing it was what you did with the engine bay based on your engine of choice. Very few of the kit cars that I have seen were actually finished in this area.

Also I do believe that many of the kit car designers were fiberglass construction people not necessarily car people and did not understood things like the challenges of cooling a rear mounted engine. This is most evident in the MG TD, Bugatti, Mercedes replicas where there was just an engine "box" at the back that you put the engine in.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2024 8:09 am    Post subject: Re: Help! Unknowingly bought a Grenade Engine Xtreme Reply with quote

kermitthefrog wrote:
Why use contact cement instead of silicone?


Because silicone may squish into the rocker box. If a piece breaks off it may migrate past a pushrod tube and into an oil galley and cause a catastrophic failure.
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