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vamram Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012 Posts: 7653 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 5:30 am Post subject: '74 Super Fuse Panel - Blowing the #2 Fuse -SOLVED |
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Hate to start yet another new topic, but I'm stuck on this - a dual ground wires-into-one-spade connector that's hanging loose where the headlight and flasher relays connect. I'm not sure it's related, but whenever I turn on the parking lights the #2 fuse blows and I've no headlights. Turn signals and flashers work, as does the left tail light and right front parking light. Left front parking and right rear tail light do not work.
I have an enlarged and laminated wiring diagram for '73-4 Beetles and have looked in the technical wiring section (https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/bug_8_72_additional.jpg) and searched this forum, but haven't found an answer. Can someone help me identify where this goes?
Thanks!! _________________ Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!!
Last edited by vamram on Tue May 07, 2024 10:08 am; edited 2 times in total |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51962 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 7:42 am Post subject: Re: '74 Super Fuse Panel - 2 Grounds Into One? |
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I suspect it goes into that vacant relay pad to the left of the headliht relay in the pic, the rest of the wiressuggest it was a seatbelt relay possibly? It's not a double, it's a daisychain that carries on to the signal flasher relay.
As for the headlights test for power at the white/black wire at the headlight relay when the switch is pulled and the key is in the run position. The blowing side light fuse could be lots of things, disconnect all the fixtures in that circuit and reconnect one at a time until the fuse blows.
Since fuses are expensive, and good ceramic ones are hard to find temporarily replace it with a couple of alligator jumper leads connected to a sealed beam headlight bulb, when you find the short the bulb will light. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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vamram Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012 Posts: 7653 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 8:11 am Post subject: Re: '74 Super Fuse Panel - 2 Grounds Into One? |
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Thanks Busdaddy. I'm a little dense w/electrical, so a couple of clarification questions:
busdaddy wrote: |
I suspect it goes into that vacant relay pad to the left of the headliht relay in the pic, the rest of the wires suggest it was a seatbelt relay possibly? It's not a double, it's a daisychain that carries on to the signal flasher relay.
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This would make sense since this is a '74 but the harness from the fuse box to the rear seat junction is from a '73, hence no seat belt relay wiring. So it should be safe to leave the daisy chained ground wires hanging loose...?
busdaddy wrote: |
As for the headlights test for power at the white/black wire at the headlight relay when the switch is pulled and the key is in the run position. |
Did you mean the RELAY removed? Or the light switch disconnected? And there *should* be power to this wire w/the key on and relay removed? Or not?
busdaddy wrote: |
The blowing side light fuse could be lots of things, disconnect all the fixtures in that circuit and reconnect one at a time until the fuse blows.
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Good idea - that's how I ruled out the license plate light, not sure why I didn't just do that w/the others while I had everything apart. Oh well.
busdaddy wrote: |
Since fuses are expensive, and good ceramic ones are hard to find temporarily replace it with a couple of alligator jumper leads connected to a sealed beam headlight bulb, when you find the short the bulb will light. |
Could you expand on this? I'm not sure what tests I perform w/the bulb in-line in the jumpered fuse. I'm guessing it would be:
1. Do this w/the parking & tail light wires disconnected then turn on the light switch to see if the fuse blows w/the fixtures both disconnected. If it doesn't, the short is not here, next:
2. Connect one of the fixtures, turn on headlight switch. If the bulb doesn't light, the short is not here. Next:
3. Connect the 2nd fixture. Bulb *should* light and this is likely the path of the short. _________________ Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51962 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 8:27 am Post subject: Re: '74 Super Fuse Panel - 2 Grounds Into One? |
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Since the missing relay is well.... missing and it still starts I'm guessing that ground is not needed, tape it up to keep it out of trouble.
As for the sealed beam test you are correct, connect a lead to each end tab where the fuse normally goes, disconnect all the fixtures adn reconnect one, turn on the headlights, no light from the fuse box?, connect another and repeat until you find the problem.
The headlight circuit can be tested by probing that white/black wire at the fuse box where we see it in the pic, headlight switch on and key to the run position should make power there.
Edit: pic from Telford Dorr:
_________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
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vamram Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012 Posts: 7653 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 11:54 am Post subject: Re: '74 Super Fuse Panel - 2 Grounds Into One? |
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I have to pick up a sealed beam to create the test bulb setup. But I was able to do one test:
- removed the front left parking light assembly, disconnected the wires and have them all separated from each other
- same for the right rear
- turn on the parking lights - #2 FUSE STILL Blows w/both assemblies completely disconnected and their wires isolated!
Now I'm thinking the issue may be between the fuse box and the front parking signal assembly, possibly where I spliced the donor front harness to the old. Ugh. This blows in more ways than one. _________________ Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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vamram Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012 Posts: 7653 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 4:58 pm Post subject: Re: '74 Super Fuse Panel - Blowing the #2 Fuse |
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I think I found the culprit, although I haven't traced it all the way. The problem wire is the solid gray wire on the output side of the #2 fuse. This is the wire that runs to a splitter at trunk just inside and below where the harness feeds the driver parking light/turn signal and splits to the passenger side signal. With this single gray wire removed from the splitter (basically disconnecting the driver turn signal) and flipping on the parking lights, the the fuse still pops. So it's looking like the issue is with the run that goes to the passenger front turn signal? Even though the passenger side continues to work?? I'm thinking there must be a short in the run to the passenger side signal.
Here's how I have the assemblies wired, btw - dual wire in the middle, black on the outside, ground to ground.
But I'm puzzled because the harness is clean all the way from the splice under the dash to the signal assemblies. I haven't traced the run to the right to confirm. I did separate the splice under the dash. The fuse does *not* pop with the run split off about a foot from the fuse panel when I flip on the parking lights. Reconnecting the splice and activating the switch pops the fuse. Makes sense?
I don't think there's anything wrong w/the headlight switch itself though since the fuse doesn't pop w/the #2 solid gray wire connected but it's splice undone.
_________________ Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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bsairhead Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2008 Posts: 4031 Location: viroqua wi.
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 5:10 pm Post subject: Re: '74 Super Fuse Panel - Blowing the #2 Fuse |
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vamram wrote: |
I think I found the culprit, although I haven't traced it all the way. The problem wire is the solid gray wire on the output side of the #2 fuse. This is the wire that runs to a splitter at trunk just inside and below where the harness feeds the driver parking light/turn signal and splits to the passenger side signal. With this single gray wire removed from the splitter (basically disconnecting the driver turn signal) and flipping on the parking lights, the the fuse still pops. So it's looking like the issue is with the run that goes to the passenger front turn signal? Even though the passenger side continues to work?? I'm thinking there must be a short in the run to the passenger side signal.
Here's how I have the assemblies wired, btw - dual wire in the middle, black on the outside, ground to ground.
But I'm puzzled because the harness is clean all the way from the splice under the dash to the signal assemblies. I haven't traced the run to the right to confirm. I did separate the splice under the dash. The fuse does *not* pop with the run split off about a foot from the fuse panel when I flip on the parking lights. Reconnecting the splice and activating the switch pops the fuse. Makes sense?
I don't think there's anything wrong w/the headlight switch itself though since the fuse doesn't pop w/the #2 solid gray wire connected but it's splice undone.
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Is that small black wire not totally crispy from arcing to the grounded shell of the assembly? |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51962 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 5:26 pm Post subject: Re: '74 Super Fuse Panel - Blowing the #2 Fuse |
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bsairhead wrote: |
Is that small black wire not totally crispy from arcing to the grounded shell of the assembly? |
Yeah, that's the + feed to the side marker isn't it?, if it's shorting out or pinched the fuse will be the victim. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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bsairhead Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2008 Posts: 4031 Location: viroqua wi.
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 5:34 pm Post subject: Re: '74 Super Fuse Panel - Blowing the #2 Fuse |
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busdaddy wrote: |
bsairhead wrote: |
Is that small black wire not totally crispy from arcing to the grounded shell of the assembly? |
Yeah, that's the + feed to the side marker isn't it?, if it's shorting out or pinched the fuse will be the victim. |
So you see it too, I wondered if the brandy had kicked in. |
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vamram Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012 Posts: 7653 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 5:36 pm Post subject: Re: '74 Super Fuse Panel - Blowing the #2 Fuse |
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No, that's not actually my assembly, just one I used as a reference. My wires are nice and clean, and the assembly is in great condition, no cracked plastic housings or corroded or lose spades.
I' looking at a fuse panel diagram from colorwiringdiagrams.com and it looks like the #1 & #2 output wires are reversed? Red/gray & gray are shown leaving #1 and black/gray leaving #2. Same when looking at Bentley 's diagram for '73. It appears my output wires for #1&2 are reversed. _________________ Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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Back to top |
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vamram Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012 Posts: 7653 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2024 5:50 pm Post subject: Re: '74 Super Fuse Panel - Blowing the #2 Fuse |
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Also, I have the gray wire connected to the center spade. This is the wire with the thinner connector wire going to the small side bulb. Looks like I have that reversed with the fat black wire - black one goes to the middle connector. _________________ Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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Back to top |
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vamram Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012 Posts: 7653 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2024 10:37 am Post subject: Re: '74 Super Fuse Panel - Blowing the #2 Fuse -SOLVED |
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Tracked the wires to the right front turn signal and OF COURSE the problem was that the small black pigtail wire - the one in the sample picture above - *WAS* disconnected on the right side and grounding out against the base of the the assembly. What confuses me further is that this is the turn signal that *was* working under all fuse-blown scenarios. But...obviously I wasn't paying attention to the fact that the small outside bulb wasn't lit all this time...
The good thing about this exercise is that I cleaned up the connections and junction points at all four corners, especially the left rear firewall wiring. The 4 wires there where individually-spliced and held together by old disintegrating electrical tape. And the red/black wires were flipped w/the black. I replaced the crappy crimps w/a proper 4-spade VW connector housing, and also fixed the right side connector. For good measure, I redid two of the splices under the dash where I mated the donor front harness as I didn't like the way they looked.
End result is now I have all for corners working properly and working headlights!
Thanks Busdaddy and BSAirhead for piping in. _________________ Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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bsairhead Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2008 Posts: 4031 Location: viroqua wi.
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2024 11:01 am Post subject: Re: '74 Super Fuse Panel - Blowing the #2 Fuse -SOLVED |
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Thank you for getting back to us keyboard quarterbacks. |
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