Front brakes, discs or drums?

[Trev60]

I'm a long way off this point yet, but as I'm on the forum I thought I'd ask.
Is there any real advantage in terms of braking performance to converting to disc brakes on the front. Understandably there's the regular adjustment needed but that couldn't really be easier could it? But a good drum set-up properly maintained should be good I think (and less expensive I reckon). I forgot to mention, it's a 71 1302
What do you think??
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Nothing is impossible, it's only rust!!!!!
Past projects 1972 Citroen Dyane, 1971 Citroen D-Super. 1971 T120 Bonneville, 1960's Triumph Tiger Cub

[jarmchairpilot]

I changed my 1200 standard from drum to disks a few years ago
It is better braking now overall but the main advantage is in wet weather,
then it is way better as drums are not good once water gets in.
I drive everyday in Ireland where it rains half the year so for me it's worth it.

[passionre]

Braking power is slightly better with discs after a several hundred mile break in period from what I've noticed. The big advantage is not having to adjust the brakes as often.

[goober]

I've never had disc's on my stock Bugs. But I keep my brakes in good shape. I can lock up the wheels when needed. True, deep water does bother drums more. But a little driving with some peddle pressure dries them pretty quick.

I've always found adjusting the rear shoes more tedious than the front. I've nothing against disc brakes but for 50+ years I've never felt a real need for them.

But then again, I've always driven conservatively in my Bugs.

[ashman40]

In short, disc brakes are functionally better than drums. That function is to safely stop your car in the shortest distance. Any other concerns (adjustment frequency or cost) are not part of the “function”.

Since disc brakes are self adjusting the point on adjustments for drum brakes is only a deficit as forgetting to adjust your brake shoes can compromises your brake function. The point on water affecting drums more than disc is another point against the braking function of drums. In that short period where you are “drying out” your brake shoes your brakes are not fully functioning. That period for discs is basically one revolution of the disc and you don’t even need to intentionally do anything as the pads sitting a hair’s width off the disc will wipe the water off the disc as it rotates. Again, better function.

The only argument I could understand for keeping front drum brakes is if you wanted to keep your car 100% stock (Note: VW DID use disc brakes on non-US Beetles so disc brakes are not necessarily an aftermarket-only option). But even then, the changes to front brakes can be undone if you keep your OE parts. So I only see it as an argument for a trailered show car that is not driven on the road.

Installing a front disc brake kit on my Beetle was probably the best investment I made.
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AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}

[Tom K.]

I switched to discs up front and noticed only a small difference. The rain issue is probably a good reason. Or maybe you don't like to adjust the drums.
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'91 Vanagon Westfalia
'70 Beetle Convertible
'71 Super Beetle Semi-Automatic: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=714131&highlight=
'65 Ghia: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=762478&highlight=

[Tim Donahoe]

I switched to front disc brakes and noticed an immediate improvement. And this was with an Empi front disc conversion (which, surprisingly, considering Empi's reputation at the time, amazed me).

You can buy good aftermarket front disc conversions for the price you'd pay for a complete front drum brake r & r, using good Zimmerman drums, ATE wheel cylinders, etc.

As long as I owned that '74 SB, I never had a bit of trouble with the front brakes.

Tim
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Let's do the Time Warp again!

Richard O'Brien

[Trev60]

Ok cool, thanks for the advise, general consensus is go for discs, you're right, I'll have to replace drums etc. anyhoo.
_________________
Nothing is impossible, it's only rust!!!!!
Past projects 1972 Citroen Dyane, 1971 Citroen D-Super. 1971 T120 Bonneville, 1960's Triumph Tiger Cub

[lner JP]

My experiance and understanding is that drum brakes are just as good as disks when cold, however they suffer from fade much more than disks when hot, so if your journey dosent involve much braking then drums will be fine, but if you have to do a lot of braking round town or going down hill then disks are a noticeable improvement.

JP

[unclewede]

When the 77 rolled back off the trailer, it had ZERO brakes (other than Flintstones) Swapped to front disc as one of the first things we did while the engine was out being rebuilt. Then did the shocks, then got into cosmetics.

Because I needed to replace the master cylinder to support the new disc, I figure there is a more even breaking power applied to multiple surfaces in the rotors vs drum.

I also dropped 1" during the disc conversion, thing is on rails around a corner compared to any other vehicles I drive.

[viiking]

Well, my 68 RHD came with discs as standard from the factory. My Dad's previous car was a drum braked 64 and he (being a professional driver) commented on how much better the STANDARD disc brakes were compared to the previous drum brake model.

As has been noted above, discs are less maintenance, better after getting wet and most importantly for some, are prone to less brake fade when used hard e.g. in steep downhill inclines.

I could never understand why the US models were not fitted with disc brakes as standard as they were such an improvement in safety. I mean the US mandated padded dashes and high back seats that the rest of the world didn't necessarily get in 1968.

The cynic in me might suggest that being the biggest market for VW in the world that there was money to be made in higher maintenance and spare parts costs for drum brake maintenance.

If you think of the complexity of a drum brake mechanism, star adjusters, return springs, crossover bar, backing plate pins and the associated hardware compared to a unitary brake caliper not to mention the time taken to change a set of brake shoes after getting off a stubborn drum and ensuring the correct parts go back in their correct location then maybe there is some truth in that.
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1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3

[bsairhead]

Why would you think your cynical that VW or any other company was out to make money.

[goober]

Why aren't we applying the often sighted VW "Engineering Test"? That is, if VW engineers did it, it couldn't possibly be wrong.

And my Bug came directly from the factory with drum brakes.

[74 Thing]

The advantages are better braking in wet weather, they are self adjusting, and better braking when heated up where drum braking will fade once hot.

All that said I still run drum brakes all around for 30+ years. They do take regular maintenance, but if you got in my car and drove it you would think, damn this car stops well.

One advantage I can think of is that drums are usually a lot lighter than the disc brake options out there (research unsprung weight and pay attention to your wheel and tire weight as well).

That said regular adjustments are required (may be every other week if you drive regularly like I do; shoe liner material makes a difference; using steel braided brake hoses help with the pedal firmness; arcing the shoes to the drum so you get use of the full stopping surface is recommended; lubing the friction contact areas on the backing plate is recommended; changing wheel cylinder sizes can help with smaller tires on the front and larger on the rear; it is important that both sides of each wheel cylinder moves freely and is lubed appropriately and that there is no debris under the protective boots; German drums are preferred (CSP or Wolfburg West); changing brake fluid every few years is also recommended.

With all of that one of these days I am going to purchase a set of CB Performance front wide 5 disc brakes to see how there are. They are much lighter than the heavy EMPI and AC Industries kits.

[goober]

[Bruce]

[slayer61]

To this old knuckle dragger... It's a "no-brainer".

I have disc brakes front and rear. Better performance and less complicated and less moving parts. Easy Peasey!

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[doug bugg]

[PatJr]

I hatted the drum brakes on the front wheels.

The disc brakes have their own issues but drums are just a nightmare, for me anyway.
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1970 Transporter a orange one
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[MuzzcoVW]

I switched to front discs on my '75. My issue was brake fade running around the hilly area I live in... and just the general not having to adjust the fronts is fantastic