First car, First Ghia: Two into One

[dingerjunkie]

Hello Everyone. Second post on the board, and the start of what I hope will be a useful thread...for me (input), for others (reference) and for my son, who the project is for (sentiment).

Next Saturday, my son turns 13. Part of his birthday present was letting him select a car that we'll spend the next two years getting just right in time for his 15-year-old learner's permit. It will be his car when he turns 16.

His choice was a later Karmann Ghia for good reasons:

It is simple to understand for a project, so he can learn mechanics/vocational skills/technical thinking)
It is from a simpler time when a car was just a car (crank windows, no nanny-alarms, etc.)
It has serious cool-factor (16-year-old, in a sea of jelly-bean mini-SUVs, rolling up in this to pick up a date)
It can "feel fast" and fun to drive at speeds that won't compromise his license

This will be a show-off car, but it will be built to be his daily driver through high school and years after. It will need to be reliable in Texas heat, 75-85mph Texas tollways and meandering hill-country back roads.

So, we found two donors to work from (I will provide pictures from both in the coming posts):
1970 rolling chassis/body

no motor or trans
no title will need a bonded title here in TX
only one rust point that I find, driver-side back of engine bay (silver dollar sized)...even has a no-corrosion stock battery stand still in place
heater boxes and pans are perfect
only missing glass is rear pop-out quarters (and upright posts between side glass)
two full boxes of all trim & lights that came off the car

1972 running project car

titled in another state, but checks out
running
fiberglass front clip, possibly rear, convertible configuration
nice aftermarket wheels & Yokohama tires
slammed...2.5" drop in front & dropped in back
front disc conversion, rear drums
motor appears "built" with dual Weber 40's, aftermarket ignition, aftermarket low megaphone exhaust (only headers installed at the moment)
short-throw drag shifter
needs pans or patching

We picked up both for $3500 all in.

Before I really dig in, our starting plan will be:

transplant the motor, transmission & wheels from the drag car to the '70 hard top
Find out what was really done to the motor and freshen up to keep reliable for long-term use
Rebuild the transmission to a 3.88 freeway flyer, stock 4th gear (not too tall on top...don't wish to overload the motor in low revs)
Complete new tin set (much missing from dragster, none in '70 with no motor)
keep the best of the interior parts (seat frames, etc.) on the '70
remove, soda-blast & prep the body on the '70 for paint
Patch engine bay hole (need to learn to weld)
Color TBD, but my son is thinking straight gloss black, with light grey engine bay for visibility/show
All movable body parts off for paint match (don't want to open a black glovebox to see a factory red interior)
Acoustic/thermal insulation put inside all door panels
Rhino-line underside of wheel wells?
Blast, inspect, refinish frame & pans
Rhino-line underside of pans?
New acoustic/insulating liner on pan/frame topside
Consider a quality A/C unit (belt driven, as most electric systems wouldn't keep up with TX heat, I've read)
Urethane bush everything in the suspension/drivetrain
Minor stiffening (sway bars? trusses? trans cradles?)
Update all electrics while still "looking right." All about maintenance/reliability, not bling
LED bulbs, dry cell battery, really clean wiring/fuse setup, etc.
Prepared to install new wire harness
Steering wheel/shifter/controls to my son's taste
Full interior lining & upholstery to my son's taste
Include reflective acoustic/thermal insulation in engine bay & on firewall
disc brakes all the way around, with dual-circuit M/C for safety (one leak won't kill front and back)
Assemble all not-to-be used stuff on the titled dragster chassis/body to sell for whatever I can get (even at loss)

We have years. We can spread out the budget. We've done frame-/cases- up on many vintage street & dirt motorcycles. My son has even helped me flip dirt bikes to get him spending money.

BUT...we've never done a car. The only capabilities we don't have yet are welding, setting alignment and shooting paint on a car body. I'm looking forward to learning to weld, and we'll buy the paint done.

Eager to post as we move forward. Also eager to get advice/opinions/input. Any recommended threads/posts/links would be welcome and appreciated.

[Evil_Fiz]

Welcome. It's great to see a youngster interested in a vintage ride (Gtrat, next I'll be saying "GET OFF MY LAWN"). Your plan is sound and doable in the proposed timeframe. Post lots of pictures, we love pictures. Good luck.

We're all in this together so feel free to reach out.

-----
Emil
_________________
“…It's not just about what's interesting. It's also about what's helpful, and it's helpful even if it helps just one other guy working on a Ghia.”
kiwighia68

See my build on TheSamba at:
The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted

[Turk.380]

A lot to unpack there! You certainly have a lot of work ahead.

A couple notes,, I would be careful and do your research about any urethane bushings. In my experience, they crumble to dust in a few years and before that, they squeak incessantly the entire time you have them. IMO you'd be perfectly fine with just refreshing the OEM rubber bushes.

And while I'm sure it's... *possible*... I'm not a big fan of trying to build an ACVW motor that can cruise 80+mph. The guys that try to do that silly business seem to be building a new motor every few years. Motor aside.. it just leads to a deep rabbit hole of brake, wheel, suspension upgrades etc..

I just did mostly LED bulbs on my 70.. though there were some issues that made me go back to incandescent in a few spots. If you're building a custom wiring harness it may not be as much trouble for you. The biggest issue seems to be finding an electronic flasher relay that will give you a working blinker indicator.. the VW indicator feeds current "backwards" from the normal 3-pin flasher relay config. On my '64 bus Speedo I was able to modify it to reverse the current flow on just the indicator lamp, but if you're going to use the stock 68-71(?) style speedo in your Ghia, the idiot lights as well as the blinker indicator all feed "backwards" and that solution won't work.
I did keep the standard headlights though because i absolutely *LOATHE* LED headlights and I would be delighted if they were just illegal entirely. Besides blinding everyone else on the road.. they just look plain stupid in a vintage car. The Holley Retrobrights have a classic look, but they're plastic.. and like $400 for a pair!

Anyway.. you're just getting started so be sure and do lots of research!
_________________
Brian W
St. Louis, MO
'64 SO-33 Hatch Top Westy | '74 RHD DoubleCab | '87 Syncro Westy: Subaru EZ30D powered | 2002 VW Winnebago Vista
'70 Karmann Ghia AutoStick coupe.

[dingerjunkie]

Well, Turk...you saved me early pain again. What surprises me is how many of the aftermarket shops don't seem to carry anything but urethane bushes and mounts now. I'll be starting at Wolfsburg West for actual rubber, given this is a long-term-daily.

[Ian Godfrey]

I second the stock rubber bushes. Wolfsberg west has good quality ones, including the rubber/rag coupler from the steering box to the steering column

For the brakes, add new quality rubber lines, or braided brake lines, the old/cheap ones go soft and can swell up on the inside.

For the handling obviously good tyres and a good wheel alignment from somebody who knows old VW's, and it is likely the steering box will be loose. If it doesn't adjust up well, get one from vwnos.com These cost more than most others but they actually work
Get some good stock oil shocks or if money allows some Koni reds.
Often the roller bearings in the front beam are worn or dead, check these while it is in bits. Don't get conned into a narrow beam if you want good handling, they are all about the 'look'
Any more suspension mods for handling need careful thought to develop a whole package, maybe a conversation for when the car is drivable as it can all be bolted on or modified later.

Put a new shift bushing in the tunnel and if you get a Gene Berg shifter it will give the car a sporty, short positive gear feel.

good luck

[Turk.380]

[dingerjunkie]

Okay, ladies and gents...here are pics of the fiberglass-front dragster. Even for being the "lesser body," it is still pretty damn cool. I'm sure I'll need to take the motor and transmission down to the cases to figure out what the previous owner really did to it.

It fired right up when we went to pick it up, but it was so low that it grounded on the ramp to my trailer. We had to use a front-wheel car dolly to get it home.

From this, we'll be taking the motor, the trans, the front disc brakes, the seat frames, shifter and pedal set. Not sure what else (minor bits).
I'm definitely not into the drop spindles, the "tip forward to fuel" front clip, the low-megaphone exhaust, steering wheel or the engine lid that just sits on the fiberglass rear section.
I'll be posting pics of the 1970 hard top body soon.

These pics do have me wondering on one thing that post searches haven't really helped with...yet... Are there posts/threads that provide visual indexing of aftermarket parts, so I can confirm what I have here?

I'm going to have to identify what is on this thing to see what is worth keeping and what goes. I see the remote oil filter (keeping), a hex-bar carb linkage (keeping), unknown origin dual carbs of unknown type/origin, the box above the fan shroud looks like a fuel pressure regulator/distributor to the carbs. The ignition includes a circuit-box outside the engine bay that can be seen behind the back seat in one pictue...MSD?

[todmeg]

Welcome!!! This is a good place. Everyone here are good folks and super willing to help.Not everybody agrees on everything so, I just kind of "average out" their opinions. My one piece of advice to a VW newbie- No hurries. No worries. Ask a lot of questions. Read a lot of posts. These cars are sooo simple. That was a selling point back then. As a result I found myself diving in to what ever project moved me, only to ask myself later "what was I thinking?" Best of luck!
_________________
1770 DP Bad ass heads dual weber 40mm 010 headers and glass pack. Rivieras. 1971!!!

[dingerjunkie]

Okay...sorry for the delay.
Just picked up the 1970 rolling chassis and dropped it off in covered storage for the time being.

Solid everything, heater boxes in perfect shape, very solid pans.

The only rust/hole damage I can see is driver-side rear of the engine compartment, and it looks like that may have been battery acid spill if I'm right about those squared-off guides being for a battery.

If that is for the battery, then what is the raised, oval platform on passenger-side rear of the engine bay?

[todmeg]

That platform is for the air filter. Was this can an auto stick?
_________________
1770 DP Bad ass heads dual weber 40mm 010 headers and glass pack. Rivieras. 1971!!!

[todmeg]

I have a similar external oil filter assembly. If those hoses are rubber, it is a good idea to replace them with something more heat resistant. Hot air coming off the engine will crack and ruin them really fast. It happened to me. Went with custom made braided steel hoses. Only set me back about $50. I have a 71.
_________________
1770 DP Bad ass heads dual weber 40mm 010 headers and glass pack. Rivieras. 1971!!!

[Marcdeb]

[dingerjunkie]

[Turk.380]

[dingerjunkie]

Well...first crisis averted.

I checked this morning (first chance) and found that this '70 is in the fortunate 20% of builds that actually have a clutch tube. I saw the end capped through the engine bay, and the tube was easy to spot from the rear inspection port.

I also popped the front to confirm a few things.
First, I'm definitely re-wiring the entire car after cleaning and paint. Old wires and a missing fuse box seals that deal.
Second, I'm fine with the gas tank being gone...just starting fresh, with a forward-mounted fuel pump, filter and inertia switch planned.
Third, I found a set of calipers laying low that indicate someone was thinking about a brake swap. Any wise/experienced folks out there...feel free to chime in if you're seeing any concerns/problems I need to be prepared for in these pics.

Very happy with where thing are so far...

[dingerjunkie]

[dingerjunkie]

More material from the motor-donor dragster, and a request for trained eyes to assist me in identifying what is really here.

First, the ignition. It looks like it is all MSD except for the coil. Is anyone familiar with this setup, quality and performance wise?

Second, the carburetors. Can anyone here identify make/model from these four pictures?

The breather setup is fairly straightforward. No mystery there.

Not sure on the brand of full-flow oil filter setup, but I'm definitely going to purchase stainless lines with the proximity to the exhaust. Anyone know if that header-mount plate will cause a problem with tin fit?

Wheels...not sure if they are legit 914 or knock-offs, but they're shod with very nice Yokohama rubber. Keepers, for sure, once I add center caps.

And now the ugly part...what the owner did to the front-end. The support bar for the fiberglass clip looks to have been welded to the adjustable beam (stock width?). I'd like to cut it off and repaint/reuse the adjustable beam, the front arms, the disc brakes, etc...on the "body car." I'll also likely keep the fuel pump and filter, though I'd add an inertia switch in case of an accident.

Before I worry about what to do mechanically, I'm going to clean up the 70 "body car", inspect everything, make any needed repairs, separate the body for paint, and get the frame/pans ready for primetime.

You'll hear more as I move forward.

[onwardtothestars]

Those are Weber IDF type carbs, possibly clones.

Dont recall what you paid for all that but you got a lot of interesting aftermarket parts.

I'd be suspect of the engine without the cylinder tins. I'm curious what the insides look like when you take it down.

Those 2.0 alloy wheels look like originals. You should see a VW stamp inside them.

Ditch that shroud and get a thing style or decent 36 horse type without the heater outlets. Look at the recent shroud thread to see why.
_________________
Beetle, Ghia, Vanagon Syncro, and more

[dingerjunkie]

[dingerjunkie]

Update on the project, and a serious need for advice/opinions on sourcing/suppliers and directional ideas..

Cleaned out the '70 and started getting "suspicious." The tarboard on the floor seemed too fresh for the age of the car. I got underneath and it was apparent that patch panels were put in on both sides...and poorly at at. The original pan is blistering/degrading and pulling away from the repair panels.

I will, for sure, have to do a full set of replacement pans.
I see 18-gauge "slotted" pans from Jbugs that claim to be 18-gauge, but the slots make me think they know they won't fit well. I see pans from Heritage, but the listing has no indication of actual steel gauge, and I thought I also heard of significant trimming/hammering needed. Finally, Airkewld has what they claim is their own British pressing of pans in 18-gauge that supposedly outshines everything in their opinion. Unfortunately, they want over $2K for a pair...4 to 5 times pricier than the other options.

Question #1 for this post is quality of materials vs. price from different sources. Who has worked with which? Which are legitimately better? Is the juice worth the squeeze with Airkewld?

This gets me to the seat rail situation. Placement on a fresh set of pans with no guide markings seems like a pain in the ass, especially with fresh rails that wouldn't line up with any jig made from/for the old ones. I know they should be exact for proper seat movement and alignment, not to mention the problems misplaced rails will cause for carpet kit installation.

Question #2: is the seat rail effort really worth it, given I'll need to rebuild/re-upholster the seats after the fact? Thoughts on just running aftermarket or alternate-model seats with universal slider mounts? This is a daily, not a show car, but looking relatively period-appropriate would be a good thing at the same time.

On a related front, I've also noticed some "pinholes" on the boot floor, behind and above the pan. I think I will blast and glass that area since I've heard nightmares about poor-fit and limited supply for ghia body panels.

Anyway, I'll update as I have more info. And, as usual, I truly appreciate any cross-links, direct advice or peanut-gallery opinions I can get.