Pivot bolt shims???

[Wulfthang]

I replaced my rear trailing arms with a plus one inch set. Now my toe in is 7/8 of an inch. Most of it is on the left side. Can I add shims to the inside without removing the trailing arm from the car?

[Wulfthang]

Anybody?

[jsturtlebuggy]

The slotted holes in the spring plates for the trailing arm mounting bolts are what use to set toe.
_________________
Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960

[Wulfthang]

Then what are the shims for?

[oprn]

Good question. The 944 has basically the same trailing arms and has no shims. Toe adjustment is all on the slotted spring plates.
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Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old!

[jsturtlebuggy]

There are two large washers that fit on pivot bolt. Both of these go on outside of pivot bushing.
You need to show these shims you asking about.
I have worked on IRS suspension since 1970 and have never heard or seen any kind of shim.

if you cannot adjust the toe by sliding the arm back and forth with bolts in spring plates, then something either bent or built incorrectly.
Trailing arms made in China have had known problems for many years that have never been corrected as far I know.
_________________
Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960

[Dan_Lockwood]

[Dale M.]

What Dan is alluding to is "String Box Alignment"....

Goes something like this....

https://www.fcpeuro.com/blog/at-home-alignment-how-to-string-align-your-car

You can find various examples for most any brand vehicle.... One of the best one was for me was aligning my jeep suspension.... But can't find link at moment....
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns"
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

[Wulfthang]

I used a variation of the String Box method except with lasers. The 7/8 toe in is at the front leading edge of the tire as high as it could go and still clear the undercarriage, exact same height front to rear. Measurement device was a tape measure. The "Pivot Shims" that I referred to, are the pivot bolt washers.

At one point in my life, I was trained to do alignments on American made cars and then later on, racing motorcycles. I still remember what the words mean and how they work but I have not ever applied them to a Volkswagen type drive/suspension. Please pardon my ignorance. I would have sworn that I read that VW rear Toe could be adjusted by adding/removing pivot washers as needed always leaving two at the outside.

I was only working on that part of it anyway as a last resort. I tried the oblong slot adjustments in the spring plate/trailing arm mounts and yes, it fixed the Toe In but did nothing for the excess Positive Camber. So I was trying the Pivot Bolt Shim aka Washer method which apparently, doesn't exist.

I have a double spring plate and the trailing arm fits between them. There are three slotted holes for bolts. (OEM had a fourth bolt hole) The new trailing arms are Plus One Inch and standard width. Bushings are new. The pivot bolt mounts on the torsion housing look OEM with no cuts or adjustments.

I can adjust the Toe In just fine with the slotted adjustments but how do I adjust the Camber? It's way to much.

[Dan_Lockwood]

[Dan_Lockwood]

[Wulfthang]

I'll just slot the holes and crank it up with a pry bar. Ok, onward>

[Dale M.]

Trailing arm controls camber.... There is no adjustment, its either correct or you have bad arms....
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns"
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

[Dale M.]

Trailing arm controls camber.... There is no adjustment, its either correct or you have bad arms....
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns"
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

[Wulfthang]

[oprn]

If you are doing a swing axle to IRS conversion then yes the inner pivot mount position has everything to do with both camber and toe adjustment. Fore and aft changes the toe and up and down changes the camber. Once the brackets are welded in there is no more adjustment there.

I thought long and hard about building an offset bushing so that as you rotated it you could change toe and camber to some small degree after welding on the brackets. It would work but both values would change as you rotated it and the change would be fairly small. You could likely get the change you want in one of the 4 quadrants.

Anyway in the end I just moved the brackets around until all was good and welded them solid. If you are working with a factory IRS pan then no there is no adjustment possible on that pivot point.

Unless someone markets an offset bushing…
_________________
Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old!

[jsturtlebuggy]

I am using Laser Inovation +1 stock width rear train arm on my buggy and have no excess camber problem. The inner pivot mounts are stock VW.
What brand of trailing arms do you have?
My setup I am using 1/2" bolts for spring plate to trailing arm attachment.
I have seen others that had problems with camber use smaller then the stock 12mm bolts use 7/16" diameter bolts.
With the offset pivot points, there will always be camber change when suspension cycles.
_________________
Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960

[Wulfthang]

I'm not sure what brand these are. I got them from Chirco's here in Tucson and they're a decent shop who sells good quality stuff. I'm using 7/16 bolts and will slightly notch the holes. I'll make it work.

[cbeck]

I was able to adjust camber a little on my 3x3 arms. In a perfect world the center line of the spring plate would line up with the centetline of the stub axle. I had to put the stub axle centerline below the spring plate center line to bring the top of my tires in towards the center of the buggy. I did this before I drilled the 3rd hole. I used a rack at the shop my boy worked at. We had jacks under the spring plates, strap across the top of the tires, and additional straps to pull the tires around for toe. Then we drilled the 3rd hole. Ain't nothin easy anymore.
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My cut in half and rebuild thread
www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=647779

[Vanapplebomb]

Porsche had camber adjustment on the cast arms that worked like that. It had an eccentric bolt in the spring plate so that you could twist the arm relative to the spring plate. When your rotate the arm, it tips the tire.

You can get the same effect on big arms by oversizing the spring plate bolt slots and twisting the arm.

One arm I had was so bad that I actually had to cut the bearing housing out and weld it back in.
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1800 Type 4 Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021