| Author |
Message |
DraganTine
Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2024
Posts: 11
Location: FL
|
 Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2025 3:19 pm Post subject: 73 Buggy Battery Charging Issues... |
 |
|
I have a 1973 1600 dual port and I'm having charging issues with the battery.
I went through and checked a few things and this is what I've come up with so far.
With the engine running connect one multimeter clip to the B+ terminal and ground it to the alternator body I get 14 .10 volts. As soon as I move it anywhere else on the frame, the engine, starter it drops down to 13 volts.
I've also connected the multimeter clip to the starter terminal where the alternator and the main positive battery cable connect and again I get 13 volts
The video is only 48 seconds and it's kind of shaky but you get the idea
(WARNING MOTOR RUNNING LOUD)
https://youtube.com/shorts/AZDvV_n8wns
What could be causing this...
I did a continuity test from the body of the alternator to a random bolt on the body of the buggy and the starter and I got 0.00 continuity I think that is correct
https://youtube.com/shorts/FE8EVxyVmcs
That's telling me I have a good ground with no resistance ?
Thanks for any help,
DT
_________________
“Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.” |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20853
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2025 4:27 pm Post subject: Re: 73 Buggy Battery Charging Issues... |
|
|
Check continuity of B+ lead from alternator to where it connect to starter....
!4+ volt at alternator pretty much indicate alternator is good.... Problem may be resistance in charge lead from alternator to battery...
Also where is negative side of battery grounded .... What is continuity from alternator shell to negative post on battery...
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns"
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ORANGECRUSHer
Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2006
Posts: 3599
Location: West Coast (Michigan's)
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2025 6:02 pm Post subject: Re: 73 Buggy Battery Charging Issues... |
|
|
This is random, but have you checked the alt warning light bulb? Usually this is the most common reason for not charging
_________________
Brian H.
OrangeCrushERBerrien Warrior-2.4L Quad4-2x3 arms-1.5Fox coilovers-094-930CVs
LAZY MARY1970 Baja 2110cc-82mm CB forged crank-AA pistons/cylinders-Grant rings-1.1 vw rockers-CB serpkit-CB chromoly PRs-CB maxiflow filter pump-wix51515 filter-Dual 44IDF-cut/turned front beam-AEM wideband-Auber CHT-Donaldson Dual PowerCore filters-custom AL air boxes |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
indianpeaksjoe
Samba Member
Joined: July 27, 2017
Posts: 717
Location: Moab, UT
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2025 6:10 am Post subject: Re: 73 Buggy Battery Charging Issues... |
|
|
When my alternator was dieing it was very similar to what you described. It was 13.8v, 12v or 0. I ended up replacing it with a Bosch from JBugs and everything starting working.
Just a thought.
-Joe
_________________
Adventures in owning a 66 beetle |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DraganTine
Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2024
Posts: 11
Location: FL
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2025 11:08 am Post subject: Re: 73 Buggy Battery Charging Issues... |
|
|
| Dale M. wrote: |
Check continuity of B+ lead from alternator to where it connect to starter....
!4+ volt at alternator pretty much indicate alternator is good.... Problem may be resistance in charge lead from alternator to battery...
Also where is negative side of battery grounded .... What is continuity from alternator shell to negative post on battery... |
Continuity from the B lead to the starter positive lug 0.00
The negative side of battery to the frame of the buggy is also 0.00
Touching the frame then to the alternator body is 0.00
| ORANGECRUSHer wrote: |
| This is random, but have you checked the alt warning light bulb? Usually this is the most common reason for not charging |
There is only one light on the dash it comes on when I turn the key on and goes off when I start the engine. If I turn the key on without the engine running and go back and remove the D lead on top of the alternator the light on the dash goes out plug it back in it comes back on...
So I tested the battery 12.9
I put a lead on the positive side of the battery and on the frame of the buggy where the negative lead is attached I get 12.9
I go back to the starter clip the lead to the multimeter on the positive post of the starter and then to the frame of the buggy 12.9 again
I clipped the lead to the multimeter on the B post of the alternator and then to a random spot on the frame 12.9 still
With the engine running I'm still getting 14 volts from the B post to the body of the alternator...
If I touch anywhere else on the frame or the engine I get 13 volts even if I touch the oil fill I get 13 volts if I touch it to the base of the alternator mount next to the distributor 13 volts the only spot where it will give me 14 is the alternator body ...
This is kicking my ass...
_________________
“Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.” |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ORANGECRUSHer
Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2006
Posts: 3599
Location: West Coast (Michigan's)
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2025 1:25 pm Post subject: Re: 73 Buggy Battery Charging Issues... |
|
|
Shouldn't the charging light come on when that D+ is taken off? I'm sorry I don't have the time to examine this right now, but I went around in circles with mine last spring and it turned out I had reversed the polarity on the bulb. The bulb is an important link in the chain, that's the only reason I mention it. It's frustrataing as hell and then even more frustrating when you realize that's all it was. IIRC I assumed the bulb got grounded from the dash but it turned out to be the opposite. OR something like that. I hesitate to comment any further in case I just cause more problems. lol It always screws me up, and I'm an electrician and a certified machine electronics tech. lol
_________________
Brian H.
OrangeCrushERBerrien Warrior-2.4L Quad4-2x3 arms-1.5Fox coilovers-094-930CVs
LAZY MARY1970 Baja 2110cc-82mm CB forged crank-AA pistons/cylinders-Grant rings-1.1 vw rockers-CB serpkit-CB chromoly PRs-CB maxiflow filter pump-wix51515 filter-Dual 44IDF-cut/turned front beam-AEM wideband-Auber CHT-Donaldson Dual PowerCore filters-custom AL air boxes |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20853
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2025 4:03 pm Post subject: Re: 73 Buggy Battery Charging Issues... |
|
|
| ORANGECRUSHer wrote: |
| Shouldn't the charging light come on when that D+ is taken off? I'm sorry I don't have the time to examine this right now, but I went around in circles with mine last spring and it turned out I had reversed the polarity on the bulb. The bulb is an important link in the chain, that's the only reason I mention it. It's frustrataing as hell and then even more frustrating when you realize that's all it was. IIRC I assumed the bulb got grounded from the dash but it turned out to be the opposite. OR something like that. I hesitate to comment any further in case I just cause more problems. lol It always screws me up, and I'm an electrician and a certified machine electronics tech. lol |
CAN't because it is now not a complete circuit.....
The bulb has 12 volts from ignition swatch on one side.... To light bulb it get a ground from alternator (before it spins up) on D+ lead, as alternator spins up the D+ terminal transitions from ground to 12 volts .... When the voltage (12volts) reaches equilibrium on both sides of bulb it goes out because there is no "current" flow....
And yeah I keep saying 12 volts as it is the common term when actual system voltage is more like 13.8 to 14.2 volts....
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns"
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ORANGECRUSHer
Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2006
Posts: 3599
Location: West Coast (Michigan's)
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2025 9:41 am Post subject: Re: 73 Buggy Battery Charging Issues... |
|
|
yes, that's right, Dale, simple
_________________
Brian H.
OrangeCrushERBerrien Warrior-2.4L Quad4-2x3 arms-1.5Fox coilovers-094-930CVs
LAZY MARY1970 Baja 2110cc-82mm CB forged crank-AA pistons/cylinders-Grant rings-1.1 vw rockers-CB serpkit-CB chromoly PRs-CB maxiflow filter pump-wix51515 filter-Dual 44IDF-cut/turned front beam-AEM wideband-Auber CHT-Donaldson Dual PowerCore filters-custom AL air boxes |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DraganTine
Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2024
Posts: 11
Location: FL
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2025 10:50 am Post subject: Re: 73 Buggy Battery Charging Issues... |
|
|
Okay so I know this is probably not the best idea in the world but it satisfied my curiosity...
I took and ran a wire off the body of the alternator and grounded it to the frame of the buggy and now I have 13.8 volts with the headlights on across the battery with the engine running when I turn the engine off it drops down to 12.7... There's obviously something wrong with the grounding of the body of the alternator to the engine and the engine to the buggy frame I have no idea why it's doing this... Temporary fix till I figure out what I'm going to do eventually I plan to take the engine and transmission out and put a new bigger engine in but that's down the road...
_________________
“Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.” |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20853
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2025 2:47 pm Post subject: Re: 73 Buggy Battery Charging Issues... |
|
|
Two thing come to mind 1> Alternator body is not conductively grounding properly to its mount.... 2> You have bad or missing ground strap across trans mount. (grounding trans case to pan) ...
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns"
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DraganTine
Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2024
Posts: 11
Location: FL
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2025 6:13 am Post subject: Re: 73 Buggy Battery Charging Issues... |
|
|
| Dale M. wrote: |
| Two thing come to mind 1> Alternator body is not conductively grounding properly to its mount.... 2> You have bad or missing ground strap across trans mount. (grounding trans case to pan) ... |
Yep I figured that also, most likely The alternator body is not conductively grounding properly to its mount because of the 14 volts on the body of the alternator but as soon as I touch anything else it drops to 13 even though the mount itself right near the distributor or the strap bolt of the alternator... it's wild... but like I said its temp I plan on new motor/tear down of the whole buggy soon. plan on repainting the frame and refreshing the bearings seals tie rods rebuild the beam... etc...
_________________
“Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.” |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ORANGECRUSHer
Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2006
Posts: 3599
Location: West Coast (Michigan's)
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2025 8:35 am Post subject: Re: 73 Buggy Battery Charging Issues... |
|
|
This grounding thing is interesting because I used to run a powdercoated alt stand. No grounding going on there. Perhaps the shroud was taking it's place. There are so many paths to ground in that dense little engine. I don't have a ground strap either. The trans mount works fine. Unless you hae heavily corroded components I don't understand how your alt doesn't have a path to ground. Evidently it doesn't, I'm just saying.
_________________
Brian H.
OrangeCrushERBerrien Warrior-2.4L Quad4-2x3 arms-1.5Fox coilovers-094-930CVs
LAZY MARY1970 Baja 2110cc-82mm CB forged crank-AA pistons/cylinders-Grant rings-1.1 vw rockers-CB serpkit-CB chromoly PRs-CB maxiflow filter pump-wix51515 filter-Dual 44IDF-cut/turned front beam-AEM wideband-Auber CHT-Donaldson Dual PowerCore filters-custom AL air boxes |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DraganTine
Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2024
Posts: 11
Location: FL
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2025 11:21 am Post subject: Re: 73 Buggy Battery Charging Issues... |
|
|
| ORANGECRUSHer wrote: |
| This grounding thing is interesting because I used to run a powdercoated alt stand. No grounding going on there. Perhaps the shroud was taking it's place. There are so many paths to ground in that dense little engine. I don't have a ground strap either. The trans mount works fine. Unless you hae heavily corroded components I don't understand how your alt doesn't have a path to ground. Evidently it doesn't, I'm just saying. |
Oh I agree... and I'm still at a loss because of the resistance tests showed 0.00 everywhere I tested so I don't get it... somehow some way it's not grounded properly... but as long as I can ride for a few months till I get more time and money to make more changes and new motor and other stuff so at least I can cruise the street again...
Buying a used buggy has its 'bugs' in it for sure LOL...
Thanks for the insight...
DT
_________________
“Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.” |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ORANGECRUSHer
Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2006
Posts: 3599
Location: West Coast (Michigan's)
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2025 1:26 pm Post subject: Re: 73 Buggy Battery Charging Issues... |
|
|
| DraganTine wrote: |
Oh I agree... and I'm still at a loss because of the resistance tests showed 0.00 everywhere I tested so I don't get it... somehow some way it's not grounded properly... but as long as I can ride for a few months till I get more time and money to make more changes and new motor and other stuff so at least I can cruise the street again...
Buying a used buggy has its 'bugs' in it for sure LOL...
Thanks for the insight...
DT |
"0.0" is continuity on my fluke meter. Doesn't get more grounded than that. Unless I'm just not understanding you correctly.
_________________
Brian H.
OrangeCrushERBerrien Warrior-2.4L Quad4-2x3 arms-1.5Fox coilovers-094-930CVs
LAZY MARY1970 Baja 2110cc-82mm CB forged crank-AA pistons/cylinders-Grant rings-1.1 vw rockers-CB serpkit-CB chromoly PRs-CB maxiflow filter pump-wix51515 filter-Dual 44IDF-cut/turned front beam-AEM wideband-Auber CHT-Donaldson Dual PowerCore filters-custom AL air boxes |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
