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Zunder Porsche 1500 1961
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Zunder_Porsche1500
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2025 6:34 pm    Post subject: Zunder Porsche 1500 1961 Reply with quote

Hello Everybody. My name is Ramiro, I'm from Cordoba, Argentina, and i´m the owner of a very unique car, a 1961 Zunder 1500. For those who´ve never heard of it, this car was made in Rio Cuarto City, Argentina, in the early 60s, and was factory equiped with many Porsche 356A Componentes: Engine (Typ 616/20), gearbox, front axle, brakes, wheels, and vdo Gauges. It has a Steel Chasis, and a Fiberglass body with a very particular design (Many people define it as: Ugly!). It´s known that the the lights were inspired by the 1959 Lincoln Continental.


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It´s highly probable that you've never Heard of it, so I´ll try to sum up the story:

The factory was called “Industrias del Transporte Automotor S.R.L.” and was founded by two brothers, Nilson José Bongiovanni and Eligio Oscar Bongiovanni.
They designed a tubular chassis, a fiberglass bodywork, and imported the mechanical components directly from Porsche. They originally thought they should use a Volkswagen engine, but they found it underpowered; so they finally decided that the Porsche Typ 616/20 (1500cc, 58 hp) was the ideal engine for the car. The Bongiovanni Brothers invested a lot of their own money in building a brand new factory from scratch. The eventually ran out of money so they found 2 bussiness asosciates, The Garcia Brothers, who lend then money in order to continue with the Project.
The first prototype was ready, and The Zunder 1500 was finally presented On September 28, 1960, at the luxurious Alvear Palace Hotel, in Buenos Aires, Argentina. Many importante People assisted to this event, including the Secretary of Industry and Mining from the National Government. We have some newspaper and magazine clippings from that time, where all this is documented. In many of this articles, It´s mentioned that the Porsche factory sent one of its engineers, Emil Rupilius, to attend the presentation ceremony of the car. This engineer was very happy with the product, and gave his seal of Approval.

The car was offered in advertisements and brochures as “Porsche-Approved”.

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We strongly believe that one of the main reasons that this car was so requested by the customers, are precisely the Porsche components that equiped the car. We had the opportunity to interview with one of the former employees of the factory, who told us many interesting data, and He told us that the manufacturing capacity was very low compared to the high demand from customers. As soon as the employees finished a unit, that car was inmediately sent to a dealer in order to be delivered to a customer as soon as possible. Unfortunately, the factory only lasted about 2 years; the serious economic problems of the country, added to the impossibility of importing more engines, and a huge amount of bills to pay, forced the factory to close for good in 1962.

In many articles it is said that 200 were built, but there are no oficial record. The reason many articles take the number 200, is because at that time, in early 60s in Argentina, there was an industrial promotion law, and the government forced new factories to reach quickly the amount of 200 cars made, and then increase that number in the years to come. We were able to speak to a former employee, who told us that the exact amount of cars made was 76: 74 Zunder 1500 + 2 Zunder Coupe (The Zunder Coupe was a copy of a Karmann ghia, with Zunder chasis, Porsche mechanics and a fiberglass karmann ghia body). The number of surviving cars is still uncertain; the 2 Zunder Coupe still exist, and the number of Zunder 1500 it is believed to be around 12.

I started the restoration of my Zunder 1500 about a year ago, and I know two guys who are starting to restore 2 more.

I Will share the pictures and the progress of the restoration with you, I hope you are excited with the Project as I am!

I hope I haven´t bored you! Ramiro




Ps: I Know of course even my Vehicle has the Porsche 356 mechanichs, is NOT a Porsche, but is not a Replica either. I Didn´t know what was the correct forum section to put this topic. To the admins please move it to the correct place. Thanks in advance
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Glenn Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2025 6:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Zunder Porsche 1500 1961 Reply with quote

Sure is an oddball.
https://www.google.com/search?q=zunder+1500+porsch...nt=gws-wiz

Welcome
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74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

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עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
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wagen19
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2025 3:36 am    Post subject: Re: Zunder Porsche 1500 1961 Reply with quote

Thank you very much for your post.
Imo, you are here just right.
Already knowing that Zunder exists, not many pics of inner structure is known (to me). Would be very interested, to see and learn more about that exotic cars.
Is the wheelbase of all zunders the same as 356 A, 2100 mm?
Has Zunder tried with beetle froorpans with 2400 mm wheelbase and also with Porsche engine and brakes? Thinking towards a Porsche equipped "pre VW type 3", but with 1500 S engine? End 1959 the 356 Super 90 was launched. Beeing afraid, that H. Nordhoff had liked that, around 1959, 60.

The Coupe, the shortend Ghia looks optical very well balanced to me. (have a 356 A and some type 14.) The synthesis of a (lowlight) Ghia and a 356 A or B is a very good thing.

(Have heard, in Argentina, ther were many 1500 ccm Porsche industrial engines and because of taxes, 1600 ccm was too expensive or not allowed to import, that time. Is this correct?)
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Zunder_Porsche1500
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2025 7:16 am    Post subject: Re: Zunder Porsche 1500 1961 Reply with quote

Glenn wrote:
Sure is an oddball.
https://www.google.com/search?q=zunder+1500+porsch...nt=gws-wiz

Welcome


I´m sure it is Very Happy ! Thank you
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Zunder_Porsche1500
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2025 8:03 am    Post subject: Re: Zunder Porsche 1500 1961 Reply with quote

wagen19 wrote:
Thank you very much for your post.
Imo, you are here just right.
Already knowing that Zunder exists, not many pics of inner structure is known (to me). Would be very interested, to see and learn more about that exotic cars.
Is the wheelbase of all zunders the same as 356 A, 2100 mm?



Thanks for your interest! I share with you this picture of the chassis after sandblasting and before it was painted, I promise I´ll share more pictures of it shortly


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Regarding your question, It was a good one! I didn´t have the answer, but yesterday I went to my father's house, where the car is located. I took the measurements, it wasn´t easy, first because the wheels are not on the car (nor the gearbox ) and also because I had no measuring tape near, so I had to use a very short ruler . But I can tell you that the wheelbase is longer than the 356, it is around 2450 mm. I will measure again once I have the car finished Wink


wagen19 wrote:
Has Zunder tried with beetle froorpans with 2400 mm wheelbase and also with Porsche engine and brakes? Thinking towards a Porsche equipped "pre VW type 3", but with 1500 S engine? End 1959 the 356 Super 90 was launched. Beeing afraid, that H. Nordhoff had liked that, around 1959, 60.


I can´t answer that, as I said, There is very little information available about the manufacture of the car. I guess they developed the chassis and body, I don´t think they tried with beetle floorpans. But I couldn´t assure it.

wagen19 wrote:
The Coupe, the shortend Ghia looks optical very well balanced to me. (have a 356 A and some type 14.) The synthesis of a (lowlight) Ghia and a 356 A or B is a very good thing.


I also think the shortend Ghia looks very well! I had the chance to see in person one of the Zunder Coupe and it looked great! And the fact that both of the Zunder coupes ever made, still remains, is amazing!

wagen19 wrote:
(Have heard, in Argentina, ther were many 1500 ccm Porsche industrial engines and because of taxes, 1600 ccm was too expensive or not allowed to import, that time. Is this correct?)


That is 100% Correct ! A few years ago before the Zunder Factory was made, the Argentinian government imported Porsche Industrial Engines because they wanted to manufacture a farm Tractor, and it is known that they chose Industrial engines beacause of tax reduction laws. Then they realize those engines where more suitable for a car, so they decided to manufacture a car, the "Justicialista": a 2 door car, with fiberglass body, and front mounted industrial 356 engine. But thats story maybe for another topic Smile

As for the Zunder, they also imported Industrial engines, because of tax reduction. The Engine is pretty similar to the 356, but it has a single mounted Zenith 32 NDIX instead of two
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wagen19
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2025 12:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Zunder Porsche 1500 1961 Reply with quote

Zunder_Porsche1500 wrote:
wagen19 wrote:
Thank you very much for your post.
Imo, you are here just right.
Already knowing that Zunder exists, not many pics of inner structure is known (to me). Would be very interested, to see and learn more about that exotic cars.
Is the wheelbase of all zunders the same as 356 A, 2100 mm?



Thanks for your interest! I share with you this picture of the chassis after sandblasting and before it was painted, I promise I´ll share more pictures of it shortly


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Regarding your question, It was a good one! I didn´t have the answer, but yesterday I went to my father's house, where the car is located. I took the measurements, it wasn´t easy, first because the wheels are not on the car (nor the gearbox ) and also because I had no measuring tape near, so I had to use a very short ruler . But I can tell you that the wheelbase is longer than the 356, it is around 2450 mm. I will measure again once I have the car finished Wink


wagen19 wrote:
Has Zunder tried with beetle froorpans with 2400 mm wheelbase and also with Porsche engine and brakes? Thinking towards a Porsche equipped "pre VW type 3", but with 1500 S engine? End 1959 the 356 Super 90 was launched. Beeing afraid, that H. Nordhoff had liked that, around 1959, 60.


I can´t answer that, as I said, There is very little information available about the manufacture of the car. I guess they developed the chassis and body, I don´t think they tried with beetle floorpans. But I couldn´t assure it.

wagen19 wrote:
The Coupe, the shortend Ghia looks optical very well balanced to me. (have a 356 A and some type 14.) The synthesis of a (lowlight) Ghia and a 356 A or B is a very good thing.


I also think the shortend Ghia looks very well! I had the chance to see in person one of the Zunder Coupe and it looked great! And the fact that both of the Zunder coupes ever made, still remains, is amazing!

wagen19 wrote:
(Have heard, in Argentina, ther were many 1500 ccm Porsche industrial engines and because of taxes, 1600 ccm was too expensive or not allowed to import, that time. Is this correct?)


That is 100% Correct ! A few years ago before the Zunder Factory was made, the Argentinian government imported Porsche Industrial Engines because they wanted to manufacture a farm Tractor, and it is known that they chose Industrial engines beacause of tax reduction laws. Then they realize those engines where more suitable for a car, so they decided to manufacture a car, the "Justicialista": a 2 door car, with fiberglass body, and front mounted industrial 356 engine. But thats story maybe for another topic Smile

As for the Zunder, they also imported Industrial engines, because of tax reduction. The Engine is pretty similar to the 356, but it has a single mounted Zenith 32 NDIX instead of two


Thank you very much for your pics and response.
That frame looks 550 spyder inspired and solid as a rock!

What about the rear suspension? It looks, it´s not VW or Porsche like?

Hoping to see more pics soon - and more info about the "Justicialista". That name I´ve not heard up to now. Only knowing about the brasilian Gol with beetle based front engine, probably many years later.

Good luck!
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Zunder_Porsche1500
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 12:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Zunder Porsche 1500 1961 Reply with quote

wagen19 wrote:

Thank you very much for your pics and response.
That frame looks 550 spyder inspired and solid as a rock!


You are Welcome! I´m glad you are interested in the Zunder. I didn´t know how was the 550 frame, maybe it was inspired! It does look solid, but unfortunately I had to have it repaired and reinforced, as it was broken in one side. Now it looks pretty good

wagen19 wrote:
What about the rear suspension? It looks, it´s not VW or Porsche like?


The front axle as I said, is the same as the Porsche 356
Regarding the rear suspension, as far as I know, is similar to Porsche but not the same. It does use the same Shock Absosbers, but it also has adjustable inclined springs. I hope you can see it in the picture:


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



wagen19 wrote:
Hoping to see more pics soon - and more info about the "Justicialista". That name I´ve not heard up to now. Only knowing about the brasilian Gol with beetle based front engine, probably many years later.

Good luck!


I will try to sum up the "Justicialista Sport" story:

In the early 50s, Argentina´s President Peron wanted to promote the industrial development of the country, so he created a state company and started manufacturing trucks and cars. He decided to import Porsche industrial engines in order to make a farm Tractor, but then he realized that engine was more suitable to make an sports car, so the "Justicialista Sport" was developed: a 2 door car, with fiberglass body, and front mounted industrial 356 engine.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



167 Cars were made between 1952-1955; in that year the the president was overthrown, the factory closed, and another Factory, TERAM (Talleres Especializados en Reparaciones de Autos y Motores) bought all the the remnants of the factory parts, changed the design , They moved the engine to the rear of the car, and the Porsche Teram Puntero was born. It was said that this car was approved by Ferry Porsche himself. 144 Porsche Teram Puntero were made, including 3 cabrio cars.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



As you can see, the relationship between Porsche Factory and Argentina country started many years before the Zunder factory was Born
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wagen19
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 3:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Zunder Porsche 1500 1961 Reply with quote

Zunder_Porsche1500 wrote:
wagen19 wrote:

Thank you very much for your pics and response.
That frame looks 550 spyder inspired and solid as a rock!


You are Welcome! I´m glad you are interested in the Zunder. I didn´t know how was the 550 frame, maybe it was inspired! It does look solid, but unfortunately I had to have it repaired and reinforced, as it was broken in one side. Now it looks pretty good

wagen19 wrote:
What about the rear suspension? It looks, it´s not VW or Porsche like?


The front axle as I said, is the same as the Porsche 356
Regarding the rear suspension, as far as I know, is similar to Porsche but not the same. It does use the same Shock Absosbers, but it also has adjustable inclined springs. I hope you can see it in the picture:


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



wagen19 wrote:
Hoping to see more pics soon - and more info about the "Justicialista". That name I´ve not heard up to now. Only knowing about the brasilian Gol with beetle based front engine, probably many years later.

Good luck!


I will try to sum up the "Justicialista Sport" story:

In the early 50s, Argentina´s President Peron wanted to promote the industrial development of the country, so he created a state company and started manufacturing trucks and cars. He decided to import Porsche industrial engines in order to make a farm Tractor, but then he realized that engine was more suitable to make an sports car, so the "Justicialista Sport" was developed: a 2 door car, with fiberglass body, and front mounted industrial 356 engine.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



167 Cars were made between 1952-1955; in that year the the president was overthrown, the factory closed, and another Factory, TERAM (Talleres Especializados en Reparaciones de Autos y Motores) bought all the the remnants of the factory parts, changed the design , They moved the engine to the rear of the car, and the Porsche Teram Puntero was born. It was said that this car was approved by Ferry Porsche himself. 144 Porsche Teram Puntero were made, including 3 cabrio cars.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



As you can see, the relationship between Porsche Factory and Argentina country started many years before the Zunder factory was Born


Thank you very much for your pics and overview.
Meanwhile I´ve learned a bit about Juan Peron and some political connections to germany that times. But it´s more about technic here.

Correct me please, if I´m wrong. The front-engine Justicialista was based on german DKW base and upgraded. Some of them got a Porsche engine. The tractor was a licenced german Lanz model. `Pampas - Lanz´, correct?

And again I have some technical questions:
Zunder front axle: adjustable like 356 ABC or fixed like pre A? Distance of tubes 120 mm or 130 mm? Diameter of stabilizer? Steering box, which type?
How is the rear axle affixed to the frame? Bushings? Transmission mounts?

VW cars and spare parts in Argentina in the 50´s and 60´s? Was it easy to get new or used Porsche engines for cars and industrial engines? Technical upgrades, dual carbs for ex?
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2025 2:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Zunder Porsche 1500 1961 Reply with quote

Following this thread. Very interesting information. Thank you!!
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