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CarsMan248
Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2023
Posts: 27
Location: Southern California
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 Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2025 7:36 pm Post subject: Seized engine/rust in cylinder |
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I have recently picked up my grandparents Volkswagen baja bug with a Porsche 914 engine. The engine ran well last in 2010, and it sat. Long story short, it sat outside up until a few weeks ago, and the engine is stuck.
What I want to know is if this is a lost cause. Below are videos of number 1 cylinder and number 3 cylinder. 2 and 4 are OK. I have poured marvel mystery oil in the cylinders to try to at least get the engine free.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy58OCEdj1M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAe84pJR6E0
I do know the engine is not a 2.0 based on the heads, either 1.7 or 1.8. Maybe I can get away with just replacing 2 of the jugs? I thought I would ask people with knowledge on these engines. |
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 80356
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2025 7:48 pm Post subject: Re: Seized engine/rust in cylinder |
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15 years outside in the weather.... it's a boat anchor.
This is after 1 year in the weather.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
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CarsMan248
Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2023
Posts: 27
Location: Southern California
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| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2025 8:12 pm Post subject: Re: Seized engine/rust in cylinder |
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I did not think the engine would be seized. It has dual carbs from Claude's Buggies on it. Water must have gone down through the air filters. The engine was never directly open to the elements.
I know it is bad, but is it worth saving? Is it cost efficient to replace parts on a 914 engine, or just throw a type 1 in there. This engine made a lot more power which is why it was chosen for this years ago. |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 23452
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2025 10:43 pm Post subject: Re: Seized engine/rust in cylinder |
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| CarsMan248 wrote: |
I did not think the engine would be seized. It has dual carbs from Claude's Buggies on it. Water must have gone down through the air filters. The engine was never directly open to the elements.
I know it is bad, but is it worth saving? Is it cost efficient to replace parts on a 914 engine, or just throw a type 1 in there. This engine made a lot more power which is why it was chosen for this years ago. |
What makes it a 914 engine vs say...a 411 engine or a 412 engine...or even a bus engine? Just asking if you know.
They are all type 4 engines. Except for the 2.0L 914...the 1.7L 411 and 412 engine was 100% identical to the 914 1.7L down to the last part number (save for the obvious mid engined exhaust). It was identical to the bus 1.7L save for cam and pistons.
The gist of all of that is....if its actually a 914 2.0L engine...there is both value and higher cost to replace what you have for sure lost.
The case, crank and heads "may" be fine (depending on how deep the water is in the crankcase). But the pistons and cylinders are junk. Probably cam and lifters too.
The case itself as a type 4 case that has not been thrashed in a bus (if its a 411, 412 or 914 case).....has value and may be worth rebuilding.
Post an engine code. Ray |
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wagen19
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2007
Posts: 859
Location: germany
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| Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 12:23 am Post subject: Re: Seized engine/rust in cylinder |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
| CarsMan248 wrote: |
I did not think the engine would be seized. It has dual carbs from Claude's Buggies on it. Water must have gone down through the air filters. The engine was never directly open to the elements.
I know it is bad, but is it worth saving? Is it cost efficient to replace parts on a 914 engine, or just throw a type 1 in there. This engine made a lot more power which is why it was chosen for this years ago. |
What makes it a 914 engine vs say...a 411 engine or a 412 engine...or even a bus engine? Just asking if you know.
They are all type 4 engines. Except for the 2.0L 914...the 1.7L 411 and 412 engine was 100% identical to the 914 1.7L down to the last part number (save for the obvious mid engined exhaust). It was identical to the bus 1.7L save for cam and pistons.
The gist of all of that is....if its actually a 914 2.0L engine...there is both value and higher cost to replace what you have for sure lost.
The case, crank and heads "may" be fine (depending on how deep the water is in the crankcase). But the pistons and cylinders are junk. Probably cam and lifters too.
The case itself as a type 4 case that has not been thrashed in a bus (if its a 411, 412 or 914 case).....has value and may be worth rebuilding.
Post an engine code. Ray |
Sorry, no time to watch the videos.
Before digging deep, look around.
Is there water on the oil level dipstick, or too much "oil" inside the case?
Suggest to drain the oil, or what ever is inside the case and have a look under the valve covers. If the engine number is GA, GB or GC, its a 2,0 l 914.
Here a bit more effort can be interesting. Turn out the sparks and have a look with a endoscope inside.
For a 1700 ccm engine, for ex W, EA, EB strong efforts are less interesting, imo. |
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CarsMan248
Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2023
Posts: 27
Location: Southern California
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| Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 9:51 am Post subject: Re: Seized engine/rust in cylinder |
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Thanks for the replies. I know the engine is a 914 because my grandparents said they got the engine from a Porsche 914 in the mid to late 70s. Also the oil dipstick is on the top like a 914 not a bus engine. I did mention I doubt it is a 2.0, because the heads are 4 bolt.
The engine has no code. I looked in the usual spots and it is just flat metal. Not sure if I am missing something, but I have looked for a code and have yet to find one. The oil in the dipstick is filled to the proper level with no visible water. Just 2 of the cylinders got damaged.
Also if interested, the video I linked is a endoscope video inside 1 and 3 cylinder.. |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 23452
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 12:08 pm Post subject: Re: Seized engine/rust in cylinder |
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| CarsMan248 wrote: |
Thanks for the replies. I know the engine is a 914 because my grandparents said they got the engine from a Porsche 914 in the mid to late 70s. Also the oil dipstick is on the top like a 914 not a bus engine. I did mention I doubt it is a 2.0, because the heads are 4 bolt.
The engine has no code. I looked in the usual spots and it is just flat metal. Not sure if I am missing something, but I have looked for a code and have yet to find one. The oil in the dipstick is filled to the proper level with no visible water. Just 2 of the cylinders got damaged.
Also if interested, the video I linked is a endoscope video inside 1 and 3 cylinder.. |
Ok...so its likely a 1.7L or 1.8L from a 914 if your grandparents know where they got it from. That being said, that makes it 100% identical tp the 1.7L and 1.8L from the 411 and 412.
This does not make it any more or less valuable. In my opinion, outside of the heads...there is nothing particularly valuable about the 914 2.0L. The best of the bunch in longevity and overall strength of parts and buildability are the 1.7L engines.
At 101 hp at best for the US spec D-jet injected 2.0L and 82hp for the US spec D-jet injected 1.7L....both f which can pick up 8-10 hp in the blink of an eye with tuning, compression and a cam change....the 1.7L can easily become very close to the US spec 2.0L in hp and still have much better reliability longterm.
In short....dont throw it away just because its not a 2.0L. Tear it down and see whats left of it!
Ray |
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wagen19
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2007
Posts: 859
Location: germany
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| Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 12:11 pm Post subject: Re: Seized engine/rust in cylinder |
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| CarsMan248 wrote: |
Thanks for the replies. I know the engine is a 914 because my grandparents said they got the engine from a Porsche 914 in the mid to late 70s. Also the oil dipstick is on the top like a 914 not a bus engine. I did mention I doubt it is a 2.0, because the heads are 4 bolt.
The engine has no code. I looked in the usual spots and it is just flat metal. Not sure if I am missing something, but I have looked for a code and have yet to find one. The oil in the dipstick is filled to the proper level with no visible water. Just 2 of the cylinders got damaged.
Also if interested, the video I linked is a endoscope video inside 1 and 3 cylinder.. |
OK, I saw the videos. Not much to see, so far, looks junk, sorry.
A engine code is expected. The heads also have numbers, readable when valve covers down. Give us these numbers and we know more. And pics. |
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CarsMan248
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Joined: November 20, 2023
Posts: 27
Location: Southern California
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| Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 1:51 pm Post subject: Re: Seized engine/rust in cylinder |
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UPDATE: I got the engine to move back and fourth about an inch. Marvel mystery oil had been in there about a day.
The right side head (1 and 2 cyl) number appears to be "022.101.372"
And here is an overall look if it helps any:
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wagen19
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2007
Posts: 859
Location: germany
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| Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2025 12:32 am Post subject: Re: Seized engine/rust in cylinder |
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| CarsMan248 wrote: |
UPDATE: I got the engine to move back and fourth about an inch. Marvel mystery oil had been in there about a day.
The right side head (1 and 2 cyl) number appears to be "022.101.372"
And here is an overall look if it helps any:
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Aha!
Now all makes sense. 022 101 372 is 1700 D-Jetronic head, used in 411, 412, 914.
The design of the fan is also early 1700 ccm, D-Jet.
With luck und a kind of labor plus a set of pistons and cylinders, new or used, you can find your way. |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 23452
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2025 9:34 am Post subject: Re: Seized engine/rust in cylinder |
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| wagen19 wrote: |
| CarsMan248 wrote: |
UPDATE: I got the engine to move back and fourth about an inch. Marvel mystery oil had been in there about a day.
The right side head (1 and 2 cyl) number appears to be "022.101.372"
And here is an overall look if it helps any:
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Aha!
Now all makes sense. 022 101 372 is 1700 D-Jetronic head, used in 411, 412, 914.
The design of the fan is also early 1700 ccm, D-Jet.
With luck und a kind of labor plus a set of pistons and cylinders, new or used, you can find your way. |
Yes, this is what I have been getting at. If this were a used engine from a bus with a lot of hard miles, lower compression and higher heat....AND now having rust....I would also have thought it to be just scrap.
However, a 1.7L from a 411, 412 or 914 with a lower end that is not rusted and heads in decent enough shape to be rebuilt.....Will be an excellent engine!
But....your cylinders and pistons from what I see in your video....are shot. Stop trying to rotate the engine. Take the engine out and pull the heads and cylinders off. Drain any fluids from the crankcase. Inspect what's inside.
You may get away with just a light head rebuild and new pistons and cylinders. The bottom end of the 1.7 and 1.8L engines are bulletproof as long as they do not rust too far. Ray |
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CarsMan248
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Joined: November 20, 2023
Posts: 27
Location: Southern California
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| Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2025 12:06 pm Post subject: Re: Seized engine/rust in cylinder |
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| Thank you all for the help. It looks like I have a big weekend project ahead of me. I'll pull the heads and go from there. |
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CarsMan248
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Joined: November 20, 2023
Posts: 27
Location: Southern California
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2025 10:36 am Post subject: Re: Seized engine/rust in cylinder |
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Hello again, I have an update with progress but I also need help on what to do. Below are the pictures of the cylinder condition and the head. My plan here is to get 4 new AA Performance 90mm cylinders and all new rings.
This is what I want to get:
https://aapistons.com/products/vw-90mm-type-4-cylinder-kit
https://aapistons.com/products/grant-90mm-piston-ring-set-type-4
My question is (because I have zero engine building experience) are these plug and play? I am not increasing engine size or anything, just trying to get it running ok. If these cylinders are already cross hatched and the rings have the correct gap that would be very nice. For the head I'll pull the valves and lap the valves that need it and do the simple leak test. Should this plan work?
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zerotofifty
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003
Posts: 4171
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2025 7:41 pm Post subject: Re: Seized engine/rust in cylinder |
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| A 914 engine may have a different compression ratio than other type IV, the exhaust ports maybe different too, (different heads) there can also be cam differences. TYPE IV had differences. Then there are the different injection systems. |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 23452
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2025 8:59 pm Post subject: Re: Seized engine/rust in cylinder |
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| zerotofifty wrote: |
| A 914 engine may have a different compression ratio than other type IV, the exhaust ports maybe different too, (different heads) there can also be cam differences. TYPE IV had differences. Then there are the different injection systems. |
The 1.7L and 1.8l type 4 CAR engines from 411 and 412...are 100% identical to 914 in every way except exhaust manifolds. Same compression, heads, valves, cam and ignition. Same HP and torque. Same exact injection systems down to the last part.
Only the 914 2.0 is different. Ray |
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69BahamaYellow
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Joined: April 22, 2011
Posts: 542
Location: Talbott, TN
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2025 5:23 am Post subject: Re: Seized engine/rust in cylinder |
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New AA Piston/Cylinders will be a quick, cheap, and easy fix for a portion of your engine problems, but the valves on at least one of the cylinder heads looks pretty rusty.
You can probably just clean up those cylinder heads, bolt them back on, and it will run, but if the valves or valve seats are pitted (which is likely), they won't seal properly, and the engine will have noticeably less power. You also run the risk of "burning" a valve or having one break off completely, causing catastrophic engine failure, maybe within a thousand miles or so.
For a proper repair, all the valves need to come out to see if the valves and seats can be cut or "lapped" to repair any pitting. This is not a simple job for a novice and shops that can do a "valve job" on air cooled cylinder heads are getting very hard to find. You may just want to consider buying a set of rebuilt heads off eBay |
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CarsMan248
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Joined: November 20, 2023
Posts: 27
Location: Southern California
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2025 1:32 pm Post subject: Re: Seized engine/rust in cylinder |
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Yeah, one of the valves had major pitting. I ended up getting a valve spring compressor and lapped all the valves. All were simple and needed a few minutes of work except one. The pitting was bad and I didn't want to grind it down any further so the image below was the end result. I don't want to spend the money on new heads. I am not looking for a performance build, just want it to run OK and last a decent while.
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