02 Eurovan - SAI Issue

[gdbautista]

Hi all, hoping someone can provide some guidance. Having a cold start rough idle issue, no CEL present. I took off the rear heat shield and it feels like a lot of air is coming out of the left side hole (see picture). Right side hole is also unplugged. Are these holes supposed to be unplugged? Or did those bolts magically come off?

[gdbautista]

[gdbautista]

Pretty sure I found the answer here. 10mm freeze plugs. Good luck everyone.
https://www.reddit.com/r/projectcar/comments/o4vcw.../#lightbox

[Endopotential]

From the Reddit
"24v vr6. My favorite engine ever!"

... said no Eurovan owner, if that engine was mated to our glitchy costly-to-repair transmission

[EuroTec]

[Abscate]

Most of the hand wringing over T4 costs are here, from people who thought they stole a bargain , and got stung.

8k to rebuild a trans after 200k miles is < 0.5 cpm, not crazy
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🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🍊 🍊 🍊

[HeyCrutch]

[xEVC]

> VR6 in my 1997 EVC cruises at 70 at around 2800 rpms,
> the 2002 EVC and the 2003 MV Weekender, with 24v VR6 engines rev around 3200

As another data point: my 2000 EVC (upgraded with 225/60 r16 tires) runs almost exactly 3000 RPM at 70mph, which results in the Speedometer and RPM pointing almost directly straight up at cruise, which I always assumed was some German engineer's idea of perfection -- especially if you are at 190F coolant temp and 1/2 tank of gas in which case all 4 gauges are vertical.

Could this be a wheel/tire difference?

Is your torque converter failing to lock up?
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2000 Eurovan Camper (Winnebago)
Upgraded with 16" wheels

[VanGeek]

I've often wondered about this as well. My 24V VR6 weekender cruises at just over 3K rpms at 70MPH. It sounds and feels like the motor is spinning faster than it needs-to.

Probably yet-another-good-reason for a 5-speed manual conversion

But also odd that 12v VR6 users report a lower RPM at thee speed.

[HeyCrutch]

[kourt]

Getting this post back on track--I actually think I have the problem of a missing freeze plug in my 2001 VR6. I have been trying to find an exhaust gas leak for about two years. Nothing has turned up, despite careful checks of the PCV system, SAI system (the combi valve) and all vacuum lines.

I'm going to remove the intake manifold this weekend to put in new fuel injectors, and while I'm there I hope to remove the exhaust heat shield and check for missing 10mm freeze plugs above the manifold. I hope to find my leak there. I have replacement freeze plugs ready. More later on this work.

kourt

[gdbautista]

Good luck Kourt!
I managed to find the leak by simply putting my hand behind the intake manifold and felt a stream of air coming out...obviously only during cold start and when SAI pump was running. After SAI pump stopped, it didn't sound "right" and smelled of exhaust. Hope this is the same case with you!

[kourt]

I got in there today and looked around, but the weather is not cooperating and I can see that this will require more time than one day. The van will need to be on ramps, the belly pan off, the serp belt untensioned, the battery disconnected and the alternator removed. The SAI pump will have to come off. Then you can access the intake manifold lower bolts.

Regarding the freeze plugs and exhaust heat shield. It's a tough place to work, but I have seen worse. Most of my exploration back there was with a mirror. I know I will do a better job when I have more time and patience.

Now that I understand the layered system here, I will reschedule this work for a few weeks out when I have two consecutive days and no following van commitments. More later!

kourt

[kourt]

Update: I finally got the intake manifold off today. Bingo! Missing freeze plug.

The first evidence I had was when I lifted off the intake manifold and looked under it. It had a black/brown oily blast residue from something underneath it, blasting hot gases up into the underside of the manifold:

The top of the valve cover also had oil blast and residue running down:

The one fastener, steel into aluminum, that was so galled due to the blast that it would not come free. I had to cut the head off with a Dremel, using a mirror and a headlamp, as this fastener cannot be visualized directly with the engine in place:

Here's the culprit:

Here's a cleaned up comparison:

Here's the repaired freeze plug:

What a relief to have found this! I got the new 10mm VW freeze plugs at urotuning.com.

This problem has caused a strong exhaust smell in the cab of the van if the HVAC recirc is not on. I think it also has caused some oil leaking of note.

kourt

[HeyCrutch]

Kourt - this has got to feel good (after chasing it for two years)! Well done!


Did you notice any changes to the typical 90 second SAI system "heat-up" (which in my experiences has two parts, the first being about 60 seconds, and then the second being a 30 second reduction of idle), aside from no longer smelling exhaust in the cabin. Do you still even. notice the SAI system now, or does it make it so that the SAI system is doing its job without "barking" its existence?

In both my 2002 Camper and 2003 Weekender I experience this 90 second heat up (avoidable through the double start method if one chooses to do that). The 1997 van (which is now sold) did not do that (even though I believe it did have some sort of SAI system).
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-2003 EV MV Wk - Forest - 49k
-2002 EV Camper - Ghost - 81k
-2003 EV GLS - Fluffhead - 176k

-1997 EVC - 12vVR6 (SOLD)

[kourt]

I'm still in reassembly phase today. Split the intake, cleaned it up, put on new gaskets, and reassembled the intake. Retapped the threaded holes at the top end of the intake where the bolt was galled. Replaced the fuel injectors with rebuilt injectors from Mr. Injector. Cleaned up a lot of oil residue on the valve cover, fuel rail, and injector wiring. Replaced an original vacuum line feeding the fuel pressure regulator. Replaced the spark plugs. Reinstalled the intake and completed the top end assembly.

Now it's lunch time, it's about 95 outside, I'm drinking a strong beer, and I have a gig with my band tonight. I'm playing a new-to-me trumpet (1952 Conn 28B) and need to clean it before performance. In other words, I'm done working on the van for the day. So I'll reassemble the bottom end tomorrow morning. More later!

(and yes, I'm stoked I found and corrected this problem)

kourt

[kourt]

I got everything put back together this morning. This was a full "bumper off" job, so it was more complex.

The SAI system worked as normal when I started the van--90 seconds of high idle, and then it settled down into a quiet idle, ready to drive. No real screaming from the SAI pump.

Update: I drove the van this morning without waiting for the SAI program to end--meaning I drove it during the 90 seconds of SAI function. Prior to this repair, doing that would risk the van stalling. Today it drove just fine for the first time ever during SAI function.

The drive was nice and smooth. The HVAC air was free of exhaust smell. I am so happy I nailed this problem.

kourt

[VanGeek]

Well done, Kourt! Thanks for sharing the photos and insights.
Between busy schedule and horrible weather here (45 degrees and rain) I haven't restarted my valve cover seal project. Will inspect MY freeze plugs and other stuff.