| Author |
Message |
Forehead
Samba Member
Joined: May 29, 2024
Posts: 9
|
 Posted: Wed May 28, 2025 7:46 am Post subject: Let’s build a 2332 |
 |
|
Planning to build a 2332 this fall for my 74 bug. Not really an everyday car but more than a weekender. I would like to drive at freeway speed not on the strip.
200 hp would be la lot of fun. Not interested in anything too exotic just a straightforward build that’s pretty reliable and fun.
No I haven’t modified the transmission yet. How would you deviate from CBs kit? What components would you use use for this setup? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Brian_e 
Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2009
Posts: 3965
Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
|
| Posted: Wed May 28, 2025 9:05 am Post subject: Re: Let’s build a 2332 |
|
|
Couple of question need to be answered.
What is your budget?
How many miles are you expecting the engine to last?
How many miles a year do you plan to drive this thing?
Have you driven a 175+HP VW?
Are you planning to run it down the interstate for a couple hours at a time, or just across town to get ice cream?
Do you plan to run good gas in it?
Are you planning to buy a built transaxle?
Does the car have good brakes? At least disks up front?
Are you planing to measure, and build this engine yourself?
All of these things need to be answered before you can nail down a combo of parts that will work for your specific application.
There are 100 different ways to build a 2332cc. Anywhere from 100hp, to 220hp are relatively easy depending on your skill level, attention to detail, and expectations.
Brian
_________________
So more or less the lazier and stupider you want to be, the nicer quality parts you need to buy.
-Modok
www.type-emotorsports.com
Type E Engine Parts and Supplies
https://type-emotorsports.com/collections/engine-parts |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
58 Plastic Tub
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2007
Posts: 481
Location: Nowhere, USA
|
| Posted: Wed May 28, 2025 10:15 am Post subject: Re: Let’s build a 2332 |
|
|
| Forehead wrote: |
Planning to build a 2332 this fall for my 74 bug. Not really an everyday car but more than a weekender. I would like to drive at freeway speed not on the strip.
200 hp would be la lot of fun. Not interested in anything too exotic just a straightforward build that’s pretty reliable and fun.
No I haven’t modified the transmission yet. How would you deviate from CBs kit? What components would you use use for this setup? |
200 hp IS a lot of fun... in the right setting. An honest 200 hp from an LS is loafing along at about half throttle. An honest 200 hp from a T1 2332 is riding the Valkyrie. Getting there means that there are going to be some parts are stressed. Reducing the stress-points so things don't break means some things will get exotic, as some people define it. One man's "exotic" is another man's "baseline". Are you ready to sleeve the lifter bores? Shuffle-pin all the mains? How will you control the valves at .600" of lift? How will you keep the cam from going flat with 650 springs? "Hope" is not a great plan. I've had 3 different cams go flat (once on cam break-in), and I've done absolutely everything imaginable to keep it from happening. I'm never running anything but tool-steel lifters on a Web cam again.
I run a dry-sump oiling system and use 911 piston squirters to cool the undersides of the piston crowns -- a lot of guys think those are exotic features, but they've just become part of the equation for my car. More stress means more stress management. Nothing comes for free, and easy/breezy solutions will leave you heartbroken by the side of the road somewhere along the Nebraska/Colorado border.
A good street engine is harder to do than a balls out race engine, because the powerband needs to have some flexibility and stuff needs to last. Getting a broad, flat torque curve that starts soon enough but doesn't run out of wind at 5000 RPM is no easy feat.
I drove a 200 hp 2332 drag engine from one of the SoCal builders across the country. A cylinder split and the cam flattened along the way. The next engine I had was a twin-plugged, dry-sumped 2276. It also had a fair amount of "exotic" in search of fast and reliable.
Brian E. and I are working together on a 2332 that I hope will have 175+ hp and good power from 2000- 6000 RPM. It's a lot harder than it sounds and way more fun that a 200 hp engine that finally starts building power at 4000 RPM. Hitting 200 hp in 10 second bursts is way, way easier. A turbo 2L would be fun as well, but not for cross-country GT use.
Everything starts with the heads. Establish what the heads will do, then pick a cam, then build out from there. There are a lot of really smart people in this hobby and a lot of thieves and charlatans making impossible promises. Differentiating between the two is nowhere near as easy as it is in other branches of the automotive tree.
Fast, cheap, and good -- you're going to need to pick one or two of them. If it's fast and good, it's going to be expensive. If it's good and cheap, it's going to take forever. If it's cheap and fast -- well, God help you. If something sounds too good to be true, it is. You don't always get what you pay for, but in this hobby you always pay for what you get. One way or another.
Good luck. Forewarned is forearmed.
_________________
Stan Galat
"A single point in isolation is a reference point. Two points is a line. Three points is a trend. Trends don't lie."
Last edited by 58 Plastic Tub on Wed May 28, 2025 10:32 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dusty1
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2004
Posts: 2094
|
| Posted: Wed May 28, 2025 10:30 am Post subject: Re: Let’s build a 2332 |
|
|
"NOTE: HP is rated using Dual 48mm IDA Carbs with Match-Ported Big Beef Manifolds, 1-3/4" Merged Exhaust. Compression is set at 10.5:1 using listed parts in kit. Premium fuel is required for this kit."
Doesn't sound like a good fun to money ratio to me. Seems to me by the time you pay $7000 plus shipping for the kit, $1000 for a set of used IDAs, a grand minimum to upgrade your brakes, three more grand for a built transaxle...
$10k is a lot to put into a '74 even if it passes everything except a gas pump.
Ten grand is just the beginning. That thing is gonna eat your paycheck at the pump. That motor might be o.k. with premium. You will solve all sorts of tuning problems by feeding it race gas five gallons at a time on a hot day at the beach. Mere feet above sea level doncha know?
The big secret to building Volkswagens is to get the combination right. Have you driven a hundred horsepower '74? Easy to build, fun to drive, cheap to keep.
The big secret is cam and heads. Doesn't matter so much how big it is except for bragging rights.
.
. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Brian_e
Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2009
Posts: 3965
Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
|
| Posted: Wed May 28, 2025 10:43 am Post subject: Re: Let’s build a 2332 |
|
|
| 58 Plastic Tub wrote: |
An honest 200 hp from a T1 2332 is riding the Valkyrie. Getting there means that there are going to be some parts are stressed. Reducing the stress-points so things don't break means some things will get exotic, as some people define it. One man's "exotic" is another man's "baseline". Are you ready to sleeve the lifter bores? Shuffle-pin all the mains? How will you control the valves at .600" of lift? How will you keep the cam from going flat with 650 springs? "Hope" is not a great plan. I've had 3 different cams go flat (once on cam break-in), and I've done absolutely everything imaginable to keep it from happening. I'm never running anything but tool-steel lifters on a Web cam again.
I run a dry-sump oiling system and use 911 piston squirters to cool the undersides of the piston crowns -- a lot of guys think those are exotic features, but they've just become part of the equation for my car. More stress means more stress management. Nothing comes for free, and easy/breezy solutions will leave you heartbroken by the side of the road somewhere along the Nebraska/Colorado border.
A good street engine is harder to do than a balls out race engine, because the powerband needs to have some flexibility and stuff needs to last. Getting a broad, flat torque curve that starts soon enough but doesn't run out of wind at 5000 RPM is no easy feat.
I drove a 200 hp 2332 drag engine from one of the SoCal builders across the country. A cylinder split and the cam flattened along the way. The next engine I had was a twin-plugged, dry-sumped 2276. It also had a fair amount of "exotic" in search of fast and reliable.
Brian E. and I are working together on a 2332 that I hope will have 175+ hp and good power from 2000- 6000 RPM. It's a lot harder than it sounds and way more fun that a 200 hp engine that finally starts building power at 4000 RPM. Hitting 200 hp in 10 second bursts is way, way easier. A turbo 2L would be fun as well, but not for cross-country GT use.
Everything starts with the heads. Establish what the heads will do, then pick a cam, then build out from there. There are a lot of really smart people in this hobby and a lot of thieves and charlatans making impossible promises. Differentiating between the two is nowhere near as easy as it is in other branches of the automotive tree.
Fast, cheap, and good -- you're going to need to pick one or two of them. If it's fast and good, it's going to be expensive. If it's good and cheap, it's going to take forever. If it's cheap and fast -- well, God help you. If something sounds too good to be true, it is. You don't always get what you pay for, but in this hobby you always pay for what you get. One way or another.
Good luck. Forewarned is forearmed. |
This is about the most accurate, realistic, and experienced response anyone could need. It is certainly NOT what a guy wants to hear, but it is 100% accurate.
Gotta remember, we are messing with a somewhat fragile 1940's design that is making 3x+ the power it was designed for.
For a solid driver that is still fun, a 2276cc that makes 160-180hp is about right. For that solid 2276cc engine, I would figure $7-11k done correctly, and you assemble it yourself.
Brian
_________________
So more or less the lazier and stupider you want to be, the nicer quality parts you need to buy.
-Modok
www.type-emotorsports.com
Type E Engine Parts and Supplies
https://type-emotorsports.com/collections/engine-parts |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Schepp
Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2020
Posts: 459
Location: NorCal
|
| Posted: Wed May 28, 2025 10:54 am Post subject: Re: Let’s build a 2332 |
|
|
It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow.
My entire car cost 12K to build including the vehicle purchase.
Smiles per dollar are 100:1 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dusty1
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2004
Posts: 2094
|
| Posted: Wed May 28, 2025 11:04 am Post subject: Re: Let’s build a 2332 |
|
|
| Schepp wrote: |
It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow.
My entire car cost 12K to build including the vehicle purchase.
Smiles per dollar are 100:1 |
That's the way to do it. 
.
. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
58 Plastic Tub
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2007
Posts: 481
Location: Nowhere, USA
|
| Posted: Wed May 28, 2025 12:17 pm Post subject: Re: Let’s build a 2332 |
|
|
That's great.
More is more.
_________________
Stan Galat
"A single point in isolation is a reference point. Two points is a line. Three points is a trend. Trends don't lie." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
chrisflstf
Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2004
Posts: 4029
Location: San Diego
|
| Posted: Wed May 28, 2025 12:18 pm Post subject: Re: Let’s build a 2332 |
|
|
My little 1776 cost me $10k in parts. Only work I paid for was balance and case work. All new parts, all the best I could afford. Took me a long time to finish all the details, but very happy with the results. I would match it up power wise against just about anyone's else street motor of the same size. I credit much of my success to Brian's advice and ideas  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vwracerdave
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 15599
Location: Deep in the 405
|
| Posted: Wed May 28, 2025 12:23 pm Post subject: Re: Let’s build a 2332 |
|
|
I agree 100% with building a 2276 for any street driven VW. My opinion there is no point in being greedy and building anything larger. 170-180 HP is a very realistic range for an engine that will see lots of street & highway driving.
Power is in the heads not the size of the displacement. Whatever high tech $3000 heads you can put on a 2332 will also fit on a 2276. There is nothing you can do to the heads from a 2276 to make them flow more on a 2332. Same with the cam. The difference between a 2276 and a 2332 may only be 6-8 HP. When you're driving down the highway you can't feel any difference.
Anytime you go larger than a 82mm stroke the engine is gonna be wider than a stock engine. You need a raised deck case or add a lot of shims under the barrels. None of the factory sheet metal fits correctly and there are gaps. You also have more clearancing issues inside the case with an 84mm stroke. An 82mm crank can fit into a stock VW case and all the sheet metal will fit exactly as it was intended. A wider engine is harder to fit inside the engine compartment of any VW. Unless you want to spend a lot of money on exotic parts and extensive machine work nothing larger will be practical for a street driver.
I have a 170 HP 2276 in my Ghia with just the factory dog house cooler & shroud. I can drive it anywhere without any cooling issues. Don't get stupid with compression ratio and it will live a long enjoyable life.
A transaxle that will handle 200 HP is now gonna cost $3K or more, if you ever want to take it to the track. You will need to upgrade the axles & CV's to Thing or 930
_________________
2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Last edited by vwracerdave on Wed May 28, 2025 12:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 79442
Location: Sneaking up behind you
|
| Posted: Wed May 28, 2025 12:23 pm Post subject: Re: Let’s build a 2332 |
|
|
| Dusty1 wrote: |
$10k is a lot to put into a '74 even if it passes everything except a gas pump.
Ten grand is just the beginning. |
What's wrong with a 74?
Yes, $10k is just the beginning, but these cars are not an investments.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
58 Plastic Tub
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2007
Posts: 481
Location: Nowhere, USA
|
| Posted: Wed May 28, 2025 1:05 pm Post subject: Re: Let’s build a 2332 |
|
|
| Glenn wrote: |
| Yes, $10k is just the beginning, but these cars are not an investments. |
Man, do I wish everybody could kick clear of the idea that cars are rolling retirement accounts. They're a hobby. Hobbies COST money. Sometimes, lightning strikes and a guy might make some money, but that can't be the motivation going in.
The guy who held onto his original Speedster from 1958 certainly didn't think it would be a $300k car when he parked it in the shed. He just couldn't bear to let it go because he loved it. That guy didn't expect to make bank on his ride, he just never sold it.
If you're in a car simply to make money, you're not a car guy.
_________________
Stan Galat
"A single point in isolation is a reference point. Two points is a line. Three points is a trend. Trends don't lie." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dusty1
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2004
Posts: 2094
|
| Posted: Wed May 28, 2025 1:08 pm Post subject: Re: Let’s build a 2332 |
|
|
| Glenn wrote: |
| Dusty1 wrote: |
$10k is a lot to put into a '74 even if it passes everything except a gas pump.
Ten grand is just the beginning. |
What's wrong with a 74? |
What rhymes with VW? Oh, wait. BBW. 
| Glenn wrote: |
| Yes, $10k is just the beginning, but these cars are not an investment. |
Having surfed the undulations of the economy for well over half a century...
Restoring a car is like running a business, like running a restaurant in particular. Even Gordon Ramsay says the key is inexpensive ingredients properly prepared. Good for you if you have a stack of disposable income. I reckon that's what gives us $30k- plus Bugs and $100k splitty Busses.
Difficulty is when the economy goes to shit everyone runs for the exits. That's about the time a few ounces of gold sound like a better idea than a $7k motor. Or a $10k motor. Or whatever.
Happiness isn't getting what you want. It's wanting what you get.
My '74 was fun but not so much fun I crave another one. I've settled into '65, '66 and '67 with parts borrowed from VWs ten years older and ten years newer.
Maybe I should restore my '56(s).
Maybe I should buy another '54.
I gotta admit, they all look alike in the dark.
| 58 Plastic Tub wrote: |
| If you're in a car simply to make money, you're not a car guy. |
If you're a car guy and you spend like you're Jay Leno your reach will quickly exceed your grasp. Best bet IMO is to pick out a few good ones. You can't buy 'em all. Very few people have money to fund serial restorations. That's where unfinished projects come from.
.
. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
58 Plastic Tub
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2007
Posts: 481
Location: Nowhere, USA
|
| Posted: Wed May 28, 2025 2:13 pm Post subject: Re: Let’s build a 2332 |
|
|
| Dusty1 wrote: |
| If you're a car guy and you spend like you're Jay Leno your reach will quickly exceed your grasp. Best bet IMO is to pick out a few good ones. You can't buy 'em all. Very few people have money to fund serial restorations. That's where unfinished projects come from. |
I run a business and have for 30 years. I take care of what's important, and then take care of my hobbies with what's left after expenses, paying off debt, and putting aside for the future. If a guy's reach exceeds his grasp, he's either not very disciplined, or has no idea what he really wants. I did not bargain down for the girl I thought was "attainable" 40 years ago, I swung for the fences and married the prettiest girl who would have me. I got what I wanted, and didn't care what it cost (beautiful women are not inexpensive).
I've had my little car for 20 years. It's kept me sane in a pretty chaotic business and I'll never sell. I know what I like. It's jumpy guys with automotive ADHD who buy, sell, trade, and lose money, pay taxes and transfer fees, etc. every time they hop that end up sad with last year's hero at the end of it all. Buying something you truly want and lavishing time and money on it (even when people tell you you shouldn't) does not generally disappoint.
15 years ago, I really wanted a 911. I found a nice SC right here for $10k -- right color, right miles, right condition. My "Richie Rich" Porsche buddies all told me "an SC is not a collectable 911" and I listened to them and passed. That car would cost $100k +/- today. This isn't me kicking myself for not making a good investment, this is me kicking myself for passing on something I thought was cool because OTHER PEOPLE didn't think it was a good investment. I let other people's idea of value keep me from buying a thing I would have enjoyed. That it could have made me some serious coin is the ultimate irony. That was never my goal, but in letting other people dictate what I did (or didn't do) ended up causing me to miss out on a good return.
At this point, I'm 61 years old and really don't care what anybody thinks. If a thing is really cool to me, it'll be cool long after everybody else has moved on. I don't buy "special" cars as an investment, I buy them because I can and I want to. I don't care if it's a Speedster replica, a panel bus, a H/D bagger, a Cadillac limo, or a Autobianchi microcar (still working on that one). If it's cool to me, it's cool to me whether it makes money or loses it.
Lest you write me off as a banker or lawyer, I'm not. I live in a hick-town in Flyover, USA. I'm a busted up union pipefitter with 2 fake knees (still not right) and a bad back. I have a hand surgeon I "like to use". I'm still out here plying my trade, long after everybody else my age has gone off to the golf course (which holds no interest to me) or Shady Acres. I'm remodeling a 150 year old house, you know -- just for fun. You can generally reach anything you really want.
PS: If you think having gold is going to secure your future in the zombie apocalypse, good luck. There were lots and lots of people in Europe in 1940 who thought their money was going to save them. It didn't.
_________________
Stan Galat
"A single point in isolation is a reference point. Two points is a line. Three points is a trend. Trends don't lie." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nsracing
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2003
Posts: 9743
Location: NOVA
|
| Posted: Thu May 29, 2025 2:05 am Post subject: Re: Let’s build a 2332 |
|
|
Yet again another troll wanting to build a 200+hP 2332cc VW aircooled, foaming at the mouth on idle. 
How many here have built that size and can say the motor lived being driven everyday thru all 4 seasons?
The ones who have been bit by experience will have 2 motors. The beasty and the bail bondsman motor after the first one blows up.
If you get passed the planning, build this like an endurance motor and not a drag queen.
You can count several dozens of this 2332cc threads here on Samba. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jeffrey8164
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 4145
Location: Georgia
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2025 12:33 pm Post subject: Re: Let’s build a 2332 |
|
|
| Forehead wrote: |
Planning to build a 2332 this fall for my 74 bug. Not really an everyday car but more than a weekender. I would like to drive at freeway speed not on the strip.
200 hp would be la lot of fun. Not interested in anything too exotic just a straightforward build that’s pretty reliable and fun.
No I haven’t modified the transmission yet. How would you deviate from CBs kit? What components would you use use for this setup? |
Well, since you haven’t commented on any of the above, I’m going to assume that you’re not serious.
That said, I wouldn’t buy any “kit”.
Too many choices to make to build an engine you want.
_________________
Volkswagen!
Turning owners into mechanics since 1938.
“Let he that is without oil throw the first rod”
(Compression 8.7:1) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jim martin
Samba Member
Joined: January 14, 2004
Posts: 337
Location: Vancouver, BC
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2025 1:18 pm Post subject: Re: Let’s build a 2332 |
|
|
the more i think about it and assuming i dont really want to think to much about it .
just by a CB performance engine kit .
assemble it and let it rip , done smallest amount of effort needed
_________________
B.C's fastest street legal vw , June 2006 Hot VW's feature car 9.81 sec at 145.26mph.
Sponsored by :
LUCAS OIL PRODUCTS http://www.lucasoil.com
KROC head porting services
Dialedinperformance.com
Airspeedparts.com topic http://airspeedparts.com/forums/index.php?topic=914.0 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
VdanielW
Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2008
Posts: 444
Location: indio, ca
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2025 3:12 pm Post subject: Re: Let’s build a 2332 |
|
|
Looks like I'll be the first to say it- TURBO!
My daily driver 64 with a 2332 turbo, running a 240 deg@50 cam with stock 044 port (pocket port though) made 260hp@5800rpm to the wheels and was a dream to drive. It also got 30mpg on a 2hr freeway run.
I have since torn down to start another 2332 with more cam and heads, I want to be well north of 300 this time. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rafo67PE
Samba Member
Joined: September 25, 2019
Posts: 48
Location: Lma
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2025 5:14 pm Post subject: Re: Let’s build a 2332 |
|
|
2276 full street car.
Link
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
67rustavenger
Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015
Posts: 11038
Location: Oregon
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2025 7:50 pm Post subject: Re: Let’s build a 2332 |
|
|
| Rafo67PE wrote: |
2276 full street car.
Link
|
Maybe a little more spirited drive, in a 2276 will do ya! 
Link
_________________
I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!
2003 Astrovan? GFYS again, Xevin!
Don't let your bad ideas remain, ideas! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
