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dopeboat
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2023
Posts: 89
Location: Maine, USA
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 Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2025 7:35 am Post subject: Heater Channels w/ Body on? |
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Alright I've seen a few posts indicating that you can do the heater channels with the body on, but I'm curious if anybody actually has experience doing this on a 68-up bug. I'm aware that it's easier with the body off, but from what I'm seeing, it's not just more difficult to do it body-on, it's not actually possible because of the way the front-most end of the channel is totally sandwiched-in between the front firewall, inner fender wall, napolean hat, and front chassis-pan-thing (technically part of frame head, I guess?). I've removed the two bolts underneath, and I do still have to drill the spot welds on the front-side, but for the life of me I can't see how this thing will come out once I do.
Has anybody actually done heater channels with the body on, and if so, how did you get the old ones out and the new ones into this spot?
Respectfully, if you're someone who's gonna respond saying "just take the body off," please refrain. Obviously that is a solution, and if I have to do that, I will. What I'm trying to find out is if it's not just difficult but actually not possible to remove the front section with the body on. TIA.
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'77 FI Bahama Blue Type 1 |
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toddgsanford
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Joined: January 21, 2003
Posts: 455
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2025 1:07 pm Post subject: Re: Heater Channels w/ Body on? |
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You absolutely can. It looks like your floor pans are out too so good place to start.your firewall looks good / better than most I have seen. If it is clean on the other side you can trim away the replacment cap and trim and fit align from the inside. Suggest anlign everything first with shooter screws than weld. Lots of threads on door gap, Bug me videos explains this all as well.
If you car has ever had any collision damage repairs in the past you will want to loosen the front frame head bolts under the spare tire this will ensure your body is square when u are replacing channels not tweaked and channels not so square. It is better off pan but if u take your time it is achievable. Get some comfortable foam to lay under the car you are going to be on the floor allot. |
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volksworld
Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2011
Posts: 2579
Location: formerly NY currently NC
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2025 11:35 am Post subject: Re: Heater Channels w/ Body on? |
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| probably at least 30 years since i've done one that way but back then the cars we were working on were so rotted out that the areas where you have the spotwelds drilled out were missing completely, two inches of the rear quarter was gone an you'd have to just kind of cram it in there and weld it to whatever was left and start creating patch panels ....all for people that didnt want to spend any money cause it was a low buck daily driver, not a resto... |
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dopeboat
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2023
Posts: 89
Location: Maine, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2025 4:25 pm Post subject: Re: Heater Channels w/ Body on? |
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| toddgsanford wrote: |
You absolutely can. It looks like your floor pans are out too so good place to start.your firewall looks good / better than most I have seen. If it is clean on the other side you can trim away the replacment cap and trim and fit align from the inside. Suggest anlign everything first with shooter screws than weld. Lots of threads on door gap, Bug me videos explains this all as well.
If you car has ever had any collision damage repairs in the past you will want to loosen the front frame head bolts under the spare tire this will ensure your body is square when u are replacing channels not tweaked and channels not so square. It is better off pan but if u take your time it is achievable. Get some comfortable foam to lay under the car you are going to be on the floor allot. |
Yeah this car is rotted in some odd places and solid in others. Would love to know the story of what it’s been through. The door gaps were fine when I took everything apart, though a-pillar bottoms are wanting replacing as well, so doing heater channels first then a pillars. What direction do the old channel fronts come out in? Out, down, back? I’m realizing more and more I’ll have to lift the body slightly to get the old channel out, unless there’s some magic I’m missing. Doing the passenger one first, driver’s is in much worse shape so I don’t think I can leave the cap and I’d like to do both sides the same.
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'77 FI Bahama Blue Type 1 |
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thomas.
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2010
Posts: 1357
Location: South West (Pa.)
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2025 4:40 am Post subject: Re: Heater Channels w/ Body on? |
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Either way you look at it the body will have to be separate from the frame. Even if only by a few feet. When I did mine on a previous '62 hardtop I braced the door frame in by welding in an old steel bed frame metal, I also removed the doors, then after taking all the bolts that hold the body to frame I made 2 saw horses, raised the frame & body up at one end and dropped the bumper brackets down on the saw horse, then the frame separated and I lowered it to the floor. You might get away with leaving the bumpers on .Then I did the same to the other end. Your new heater channels will have to match up with the bolt holes in the frame so it's easier to have them separate to bolt the heater channel to the frame and lower the body on to. If you don't it may not line up and it will be more work ovaling the frame holes to make it fit. It would seem to me it would be more difficult to work around not separating the two. Also, I welded in other new metal while the two were apart. Both a pillars , d.side crossmember , etc... If your vehicle needs channels it will also need other metal. I'm no expert on the matter, it's how I did mine though.
Photo from my samba gallery...
One other tip , before welding in heater channel install the defroster hose. Even if you think you're not going to use it , you may change your mind later. And it's a bitch to get in the other way.
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viiking
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Joined: May 10, 2013
Posts: 3123
Location: Sydney Australia
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2025 5:27 pm Post subject: Re: Heater Channels w/ Body on? |
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| dopeboat wrote: |
| What direction do the old channel fronts come out in? Out, down, back? I’m realizing more and more I’ll have to lift the body slightly to get the old channel out, unless there’s some magic I’m missing. |
If you can get a copy of the Bug Me Video 7 they show how to do it with the body on. It's quite sensible.
A picture is worth a thousand words but I'lll do the best I can to explain.
Essentially you need to brace the body as you would with the body off method. Angle or metal across the door openings using big self tapper screws and also triangulating the left and right side, but note this may need to be partly removed to achieve some of the following. You can install it first and then if you do have to remove it temporarily you at least will have the screw holes to return it back to where you first braced it. It'll make sense later.
Repair A pillar if you need to. This provides a reference point for the new heater channels.
Cut out all the spot welds for the channel. Some are hidden.Inside and outside welds at the front and rear quarter panels. All the attachment points have to be freed. You would have to do that anyway if you were going to replace the heater channels with the body off.
Doors off.
Now you have to free up the body to pan bolts. You have to remove all the bolts EXCEPT the back two in the rear wheel wells. These are to be loosened and act as a pivot.
Now you need to get a floor jack or bottle jack and some bits of wood. The jack goes under the dashboard. In the video the floor pan is intact so they build up with timber on either side of the tunnel so that they can add a flat timber platform on top (thick plywood) so that the jack can sit on top of the tunnel but be supported on either side by the plywood platform. In your case you may need to come up with something clever to provide sufficient bearing surface for the jack. Maybe build up something from the floor of the garage to achieve the same result.
To achieve the lift you need something to lift the body. In the video they use a 4" x 2" across from the rear-most part of the front wheel well. There looks like there is a tiny ledge there. The 4x2 is cut at a maybe 45 degree angle to the horizontal to fit the contour of the wheel well to underside of the dashboard intersection. Then that 45 degree is further bevelled in the vertical to match the angle and the shape of the area in question. The idea is to get the timber to match the area in question. Suggest you make a pattern from scrap timber until you get it right before cutting the final 4x2.
Then two or more wedges are cut for the top of the shelf that you have just made from the 4x2 in a perpendicular plane to the 4x2 that matches the incline of the underneath of the dashboard. This is the lifting point. Bigger and wider the better to spread the load.
The jack is now operated to lift the body off the front of the chassis. This may require modifications to your shelf and wedge arrangement if it keeps slipping off. You can get clever and some up with other ideas but you need to remember that the underneath of the dashboard is not very thick and therefore could bend easily, especially if you have forgotten an attachment point and the body is still stuck when you try and first lift. That is, go slowly at the start.
Now in the video they say that the motor has to be out to allow the body to clear the motor. Not sure if you will have that problem. The rear bolts of course have to loose enough to allow the body to pivot. The bolts are there just to stop the body from slipping off. Lift it up the body at the front maybe a foot?
Once the front of the body is loose you can start cutting away the old heater channel. It will generally be obvious how it comes out. You can always cut it in half with a saw-zall to make it easier.
Now they do mention that there is a solid weld at the front of the outer rear wheel well right at the bottom of the heater channel. You need to cut this away in the horizontal plane before you start lifting otherwise the heater channel will not come loose.
Clean up all the damage etc.
Then insert the new heater channel sliding in from the front until the rear of the heater channel lines up. Then drop the body down and finish the fitting of the body etc.
Hope that makes sense.
_________________
1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3 |
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dopeboat
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2023
Posts: 89
Location: Maine, USA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2025 8:37 am Post subject: Re: Heater Channels w/ Body on? |
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Thank you all for the helpful replies! I think an important distinction to make to newcomers (like me) is that while you can do these channels with the body “on”, you cannot do them with the body ATTACHED. No matter what you’ll have to lift the body, even slightly, to remove the old channels and slide the new ones in.
On a separate note, I would like to take this opportunity to complain about how annoying it is that some (most?) of these sheet metal parts come with a rust preventative coating that is specifically noted by the manufacturer to not be primer, I imagine so as to skirt warranty issues where people say the primer failed. How much harder would it be for them to spray the parts with an actual primer instead of this coating? Has anybody run the coating as primer anyway? I’m having this experience with both the heater channels and the floor pans.
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thomas.
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2010
Posts: 1357
Location: South West (Pa.)
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2025 3:57 am Post subject: Re: Heater Channels w/ Body on? |
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| On some of the cheaper floor pans they spray on a "rust preventive" coat of paint. It does just as it implies while it is sitting on the store shelf waiting to ship. I also thought they were all the same and years ago asked on here about the paint on W.West and got the reply to take off the coating.(A beige colored paint) They were wrong though. The coating on the W,West pans is powder coated on. When I tried to grind some off it was really difficult. I ended up using por 15 over the powder coating but probably didn't need it. When I changed the heater channels I opted for the better ones from cip1 at the time and they had that black rust preventive paint that is easy to take off. If doing again I'd get the Klassic fab channels. When I bought the cip1 channels they were on sale for $100 each with free shipping, This was around 2014 or '15. If it's that black paint and it's real easy to remove I would remove it and not use as a primer. |
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viiking
Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2013
Posts: 3123
Location: Sydney Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2025 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: Heater Channels w/ Body on? |
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| dopeboat wrote: |
On a separate note, I would like to take this opportunity to complain about how annoying it is that some (most?) of these sheet metal parts come with a rust preventative coating that is specifically noted by the manufacturer to not be primer, I imagine so as to skirt warranty issues where people say the primer failed. How much harder would it be for them to spray the parts with an actual primer instead of this coating? Has anybody run the coating as primer anyway? I’m having this experience with both the heater channels and the floor pans. |
I guess the problem always is that they never know what you’re going to paint with subsequently and the possible myriad of reactions between coatings. Some manufacturers use the cheapest nastiest paint to save costs expecting the user to take the coating off. It provides the minimum coating against flash rust.
My experience with WW floor pans was that I stripped off all the paint and then used the coatings of my choice. I can’t say that I considered them being powder coated though as thomas. said but it may have been different at different times.
The coating was very difficult to remove though.
Same with Klassic Fab parts. I actually contacted them and asked specifically about whether I should remove their green coating to which they replied “Yes!” That was really hard work and in hindsight totally unnecessary in my application.
Most of the suppliers don’t want any comeback and angry customers when they get blasted on here or social media if shiny new paint reacts.
This is the same reaction I got from a number of paint shops when I tried to get my car painted. I had done all the preparatory work and had epoxy sprayed the car to prevent flash rust. In every case they said I would have to pay for the epoxy to be removed because they could not guarantee any of the paint job in case of reaction between coats. Even some places only want to use one range of primers, sealers and top coats to ensure no incompatibilities between manufacturers.
In some cases having a wipe off coat with thinners works to your advantage if you want your weld surfaces nice and clean and saves sanding off. This is especially true for TIG welding.
_________________
1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3 |
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