Vanagon REAR shifter slop

[Sodo]

Looked at the links on the http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=525798 and couldn't find the info. Is there a thread for info for rebuilding this REAR part of the shift linkage? I named this thread "REAR shifter" so it doesn't get confused with the front. Hope that's OK.

1) Inserting my finger here I can feel a larger diameter worn where the ball contacts the inner bore. Does anybody know the (accurate) diameter of a NEW ball so I can assess mine?

2) There is some slop at this roll-pin joint. It seems like adding a couple horizontal roll-pins would eliminate this slop.

3) This bushing has a LOT of slop. What's the best solution for this bushing? GoWesty.com has a no-lube, no bellows delrin bushing ($59), and OEM replacement bushing $9

Advice on these appreciated. I saw the complete rebuild kit for $149.

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'90 Westy EJ25, NEW oil rings (!) 2Peloquins, 3knobs, SyncroShop pressure-oiled pinion-bearing & GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox.
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered original gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[Gnarlodious]

That roll pin is a fine example of cockamamie German engineering! I did this to bolt down my shifter elbow:

Those are bolts and inside the tube are the furniture dowel nuts you find at a hardware store:

Use the concave washers from a bike shop on the outside, they fit perfectly. This arrangement tightens down the soft aluminum real good and solves the wiggle problem for good. I actually injected glue inside so if and when I unscrew the bolts the cylinders don’t disappear inside the tube, because getting them lined up the first time is hard enough!

Check the 13mm nut that holds the lever on the selector shaft. Ideally it should be Nylock®. If it that nut ever comes loose bad things happen. The spline erodes away from road vibration and leaves you stranded with no way to shift gears.

As for the socket being worn inside, I used shrink tubing on the plastic ball to make it a bit larger. It only contacts on narrow latitudes at the center, and it has worked well for 2 years. The boot is problematic, at least on the diesel which has a longer socket. After lubing with lithium grease I has to clamp the boot on with a zip tie.

Also, when you bolt down that holder, press it upward far as possible. You can even reposition it by expanding its 2 holes. That will contact the plastic on pristine aluminum.

As for the slider bushing, I did this:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7164356
The problem is that installing new bushings requires dissassembling also the front link, which I didn’t feel like doing.
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Vanagon ’83 diesel AAZ w/Giles injection, 5spd 4.57R&P+TBD and a '78 diesel Rabbit

[Jeroen_M625]

For (1) I have filled the gab with rubber. Once by glueing rubber to the sides of the bowl and pnce by thick shrinking tube over the ball. Both worked fine. The rubber should also dampen vibration a bit (although to small to really notice). BTW this part 251711973 is still available.

Never had problem (2), but on at (3) the metal rod was halfway gone, so welded a new piece of tube and had the idea of shrinkwrap it, but 'polished' the rod, used new cheap bushing without any grease (thought: no grease, no sticking dirt...and this used to see dirt). Like Gnarlodious' idea of super slick tape very much.

[Sodo]

Thx for ideas. keep them coming. Buying a new selector elbow is OK too but I like easy fixes. Gnaroldious I think you eliminated any slop at the roll pin! I probably have those parts from IKEA.
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'90 Westy EJ25, NEW oil rings (!) 2Peloquins, 3knobs, SyncroShop pressure-oiled pinion-bearing & GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox.
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered original gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[vanis13]

[Jeroen_M625]

Don't have new ball on stock, but inner diameter is 30mm (inches on top) (measured both diesel and gas/petrol)

[Sodo]

That's GREAT thanks. I wonder how much smaller the ball wears, the slop is the combination of both.
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'90 Westy EJ25, NEW oil rings (!) 2Peloquins, 3knobs, SyncroShop pressure-oiled pinion-bearing & GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox.
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered original gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[syncrodoka]

The cup is right at 30mm and the ball is 29.6mm. The ball moves freely in the cup but there is no felt slop between the two.

[Chris Beebe]

I recently had my 1.9l replaced with a 2.1l, and after I got the van back, I've had a hard time getting into 2nd gear without grinding. I can find all gears just fine, with the motor running and off, but I have to really pull the shifter into 2nd hard before/while letting the clutch out. Once the gear is engaged, it's fine. I don't have a grinding problem when coming from 3rd into 2nd.
Before the motor swap, I had replaced all the bushings, cup and ball with the GoWesty kit and it shifted well. I've been using the adjustment method where I use a bungee to hold the shifter (coupling loosened) all the way to the right in neutral, but I've also used the Bentley method (19mm block in the shifter box).

Before I go down the trial and error rabbit hole, does the grinding 2nd gear engagement ring a bell for anyone?

TIA
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'84 Westy 2WD
'86 Syncro/EJ25 Westy
'82 Fiat 124 Spider
'76 Lancia Beta Coupe (sold)
'73 MG Midget
'19 VW Alltrack
'89 F250 Rescue Rig

[Jeroen_M625]

19mm: that is for a early 4-speed '80-'81 (LBX)
22mm untill october '82
all other 4-speed 23mm


That setting only/best works if everything else is in factory condition.
So if the tabs on the fork are not worn (worn tabs compensates for slob in worn bushings etc.).
Also center the central pivot point and the cup. I.e. if linkage is too long than 2nd and/or 4 may not be engaged well).

The mount at the gearbox has some play to adjust and the shifter box also (loosen the bolts and some minor rotation is possible.

[4Gears4Tires]

I replaced the ball and it made a difference in tightening up the shifter.
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'87 Syncro Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition
'85 Westy Sciuridae Domus Edition

[?Waldo?]

I have seen where the washer where the yellow arrow is pointing became concave and as a consequence no longer gripped the ball lever tightly to the shift shaft. The simple solution is to flip the washer over.

[Sodo]

If your rear shifter cup has worn out the hole at the roll pin,
the added slop in the system causes difficulty in getting the transmission into first gear.

Go under the van and have a helper shift gears while you watch the elbow. If you see movement of the elbow on the shift rod, this can be ONE of the causes it's difficult to get into 1st gear.

If it's really loose you can feel/see the slop under the van (with no helper).

This is an aftermarket CNC shifter elbow from 2015.
It could be GoWesty.???
Cut one leg of the hoop and use a pinch-bolt arrangement to eliminate shifter slop.
Two options.

1) Allen bolt inside the cup with a nut below. Shown is an M6 x 45mm bolt &nut. No drilling, you only have to hacksaw one leg of the elbow.
Or
2) add threads deep inside the cup. The bolt enters from below. The bent bolt has a locking effect and the bend takes up hole slop too. It could be the better way but you’re starting with a 6mm thru-hole so you need to drill+thread for a bigger M8. You will be drilling your long shift-rod to 8mm too.

Everyone who has pounded out that roll pin should do this because it's SIGNIFICANTLY easier to service the shift rod or replace boot gaiters.

The original roll pin & hole diameter is 6mm.
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'90 Westy EJ25, NEW oil rings (!) 2Peloquins, 3knobs, SyncroShop pressure-oiled pinion-bearing & GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox.
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered original gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb