Reasonable Price for a 1600 case?

[luftgekuehlt]

Hi -

I'd like to ask for advice: I want to learn to rebuild a VW motor. I have a 1970 Ghia that is in pretty good stock condition, but I am interested in learning understanding more and want to buy an old motor to attempt a rebuild. They turn up in the classified here locally occasionally, but prices tend to be high, often for motors that have seen a lot of weather or are just unknown condition. What is a reasonable financial starting point for something like this?

Any help appreciated,

Chris

[VW_Jimbo]

I just picked up 2 cases yesterday. Each was $100. It was only the case. The condition was good, but not sure if they have cracks. I get to check for that and cross my fingers. One of them had 20 stamped into the oil cooler pad. Hoping it applied to the last align boring, but could have been superseded since then. The other one had 80 on it by the rear main seal. But no other stamping.

Soooooo, for $200 I am crossing my fingers I got ONE good, well used case. We will see!

Most used engines around here are between 600 - 1200, right now. Cases are almost never listed solely.
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Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[Dusty1]

Cases run from dirt cheap to foolishly expensive. The expensive ones are from vendors stuck in 2022.

You should be able to get a case dirt cheap maybe even free depending on where you are.

If you're not near anyone who can do a line bore and you need a line bore your case should be dirt cheap.

It makes sense to buy mid- '70s AH or AK cases for the same reason. If you buy a "B" or an "AE" case and it needs case savers, it's not a precision operation like a line bore but you still need 'em.

There are a couple complete motors in my area for under $300 each. A complete motor is a good idea especially if you get all the tin.

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[Dusty1]

[oprn]

I just paid $200 for a used 1800 type 4 case. I wouldn't pay that for a used type 1 case though! They have far too many issues! To me the value in a used type 1 engine is not the case but the tins and hardware.
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Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old!

[Bobs67vwagen]

It is a crap shoot and big gamble. You could keep one of those plastic line bore gauges in your pocket that can give a rough idea of previous boring. You will not know if it has any hairline cracks. If a crack is later found the case is junk. The only real way to buy one of these for over 100 bucks is if the seller has had the case machined and has receipts in hand to show what was done, and of course you will be paying a lot more for that.

[BFB]

I think it depends. if you want to actually learn to build vw engines then start with cheap, there's no better way to learn than screwing up and checking / finding things wrong so you can see & recognize what to look for.
if your just planning to build one or two engines then spend the money on a good case because your not really going to learn how to build them from just doing one or two.
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"how am i supposed to torque the rear wheel nut to 250 ft lbs??? " - clonebug
An interesting thing happens in forums where everyone starts parroting the same thing and "common knowledge" takes over.
Most experts aren't.

[Dusty1]

[oprn]

The last type 1 engine I built I used a case I had kicking around. No idea where it came from (Maybe an agricultural sprayer?) and it had a thick coat of paint. I took it to the machinist and had it align bored. That went very well but when I got it home and started stripping the paint off and it had some major cracks that were painted over.

Oh crap!

I took it to a welder and he said he would give it a try. The cracks were all around the bell housing flange almost like stress cracks from the weight of the engine. I took a 002 bell housing and some bolts with it so they could bolt it solid as they welded it. Turned out pretty good, one mounting ear warped about 1/23 of an inch right on the top right corner. The align bore was not effected and the engine is happily powering my sand rail now.

So, yes they can be welded. Cost me a bit though.
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Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old!

[VW_Jimbo]

[oprn]

For those interested here are photos of the cracks we missed.

And the finished job.

_________________
Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old!

[Bobs67vwagen]

Wow those are some serious looking welds. Do you recall how much was charged for the welding alone? Thanks Bob

[oprn]

$250 I had already invested in the align bore so... I went for it. The case was pretty pristine in all other respects. AS21 case.
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Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old!

[aircooledamateur]

Around €200-€400, depending on condition. For $250 plus the align bore, getting a clean AS21 case is a good deal.

[Dusty1]

[oprn]

Yes I have no idea what the cause was. I took courage in the fact that it was under a layer of paint and grim so obviously it had been run like that for some time to no ill effect.

By the way, this AS21 has both dual relief and mechanical pump hole. Interesting...
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Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old!

[Dusty1]

I got an interesting case yesterday. How 'bout an AE w/ 10mm case savers, .060" over line bore, line bore is good but the thrust is pretty hammered. Poor thing has about 1/4" end play.

Another goofy feature, not the first time I've seen this: One of the case savers is a little high. This engine lived its seventh and eighth life with one cylinder a little cockeyed.

I wish I bought a few of those Brazilian phosphor bronze machine to fit thrust bearings when I saw them.


Hey, O.P.. Want a case?


I'll probably modify an AJ case or two for carburetors. I only need to drill / bore three holes in the right place.

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[Rome]

Trying to find a complete, assembled engine has some benefits.
-You can take many photos of each component while still installed for reference on reassembly in the future
-You have most of the many nuts & bolts, which you don't have to find vs finding just a bare case and then searching for the right fasteners. Find small containers with lids at the dollar store that you label with a marker for all the different components- head nuts, case nuts, intake manifold, etc.

A good repair manual which shows how to disassemble a Type 1 engine and then assess the condition of the major components is this one. It has many photos of the components and assembly techniques.

Even if you get an engine that is seized- that is, the crank pulley or flywheel won't turn when you apply force- you can use such an engine for tear-down and clean-up. Try reassembly with the parts you have/came on it just to see how things fit together, even if you don't buy any new parts for it. You can clean many parts using 2 gallons of diesel fuel in a large 5-gallon plastic utility bucket, with a parts cleaning brush and a brass bristle brush. Do this outside! And wear solvent-resistant gloves.

When you do a dry run with the reassembly, you can take it apart again, and buy new critical parts such as bearings and seals; possibly pistons and cylinders to assemble with the intent to get it running.

There's a guy who makes many YouTube videos on trying to get neglected VW engines to run- "Mustie1". He has many old engines in his stash (southern New Hampshire) and is able to work around mediocre or even overly worn parts just to see if the engine can run.

If a potential engine in your area does not rotate when you check it (take work gloves with you for the inspection), this works in your favor since you can always claim that you'll need to expend money to buy the internal parts which prevent the engine from turning. And make a lower offer than the asking price if there is a price in question.

[Rome]

This morning I drove to the Deutsche Classic show in Oley, Pennsylvania which is SW of Allentown. A vendor had about 10 stripped engine cases, mostly Type 1 but also a Type 3, greasy/grimy but with head studs; $50 each. I did not look at any for myself.

[chrisflstf]

For anyone looking at a used VW case, the Dub Shop has these cool crank and case gauges

https://thedubshop.com/vw-type-1-case-and-crank-bearing-size-gauging-tool/