1968 autostick - ongoing switch issues

[crankbait09]

have a few remaining issues with this car. once I get them resolved, i can get this car out of my garage and be done with it forever! PITA

I cannot figure out what is happening with the emergency flasher switch that causes it to go up in smoke. I just ordered a 4th switch.

The past 3 switches, I've hooked them up. test the lights, off/on, everything blinks as it should. I was even able to set the bug and let it run for a bit. got to the point of turning on the turn signals manually with the steering wheel lever and I got nothing. Why would the hazard switch turn the lights on, but the turn signal switch doesn't? I continued to recheck wires and try to figure out what was missing. I found nothing obvious. put all the wires back in place and this time the lights worked. went to start the car and POP, the emergency switch went up in smoke. this has happened on every switch that I replaced. obviously something is shorting the switch out but I can't figure out what or where.

I went over the wiring diagram 5 times now and can't see anything that I might have wired incorrectly. I am at a loss.

after the POP, it kills all power everywhere. fuses arn't blown so I am unable to detect what's actually blown. that little resistor on the switch is not burned up either. what exactly does that do?
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1963 Ragtop

[heimlich]

Can you take a picture and show how you have it hooked up with the wires?
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[crankbait09]

My new replacement switches came in today. I haven't tried hooking them up yet.

I removed the switches from the dash, and this is how the wires currently sit on the bad emergency switch.

Hopefully you see all you need. if not, let me know and I can get more photos.

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1963 Ragtop

[scrivyscriv]

When you say it kills power everywhere, where exactly do you not have power? The emer lights go through fuse 9, directly off the ignition switch, as constant hot battery voltage at all times.

You said it happened when you try to start the car. It could be in the ignition circuit terminal 15 on the switch. That circuit also goes to the brake warning light and the fuel gauge vibrator, and is associated with the brake lights and horn. Maybe one of those wires is grounded? Or bad fuel vibrator?
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Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
If you're ever in the Memphis area, you are welcome to stop by for advice and help.

[crankbait09]

No power, meaning as soon as I hear that switch "pop" and see smoke......if i try to turn the key to start it, I get NOTHING. no lights, no start, no nothing. Once I replace the switch with a new one, then im back in business until that emergency switch pops.
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1963 Ragtop

[scrivyscriv]

I’ve been looking through your photos and I think you’re overlooking a misplaced wire. I believe you also have at least the red wire to the headlights switch on the wrong side of the fuse box. The wiring diagram shows headlight power from the headlight switch going to the bussed side of the fuse box location 9, through the fuse, and out to the emer switch. It looks like you have it on the non-bussed side, which I think is why your switch is burning up without a fuse blowing.

I can’t tell very well where all of your wires are going, and there looks to be mostly color coded but not entirely. It’s hard to sort through without putting a meter or test light in person
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Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
If you're ever in the Memphis area, you are welcome to stop by for advice and help.

[sb001]

[crankbait09]

If I read your first post correctly, it sounds like the emergency flashers work fine with the key off, correct? Everything works UNTIL you turn the key, and then the flasher switch pops and burns up, is this correct? - this is correct.

I plan on going out there tomorrow or Monday. When I do get out there, I will draw a diagram of where I have each wire going to/from. I will include more photos as well.
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1963 Ragtop

[crankbait09]

alright, it's probably a little difficult for pictures since it's chaos.

I have traced each wire off both switches and can tell you where everything lands. does this help?

Normal Light Switch
terminal 30 - red wire goes to fuse #9
second terminal 30 - not used
third terminal 30 - from the turn signal switch at steering wheel
terminal 58 - white or grey wire goes to fuse #7
terminal 57 - not used
second terminal 57 - not used
terminal 56 - white/black wire goes to relay
terminal 58b - grey/red wire goes to speedometer lights

Emergency Light Switch
terminal R - green/black wire from the turn signal switch at steering wheel
terminal 49a - white or grey wire goes to relay
terminal 30 - red wire goes to fuse #9
terminal 50a - black wire goes to fuse #2 (doubled up with a black wire that goes to speedometer
terminal 49 - black wire goes to relay
terminal 58b - not used
terminal L - black and white wire goes to lghts
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1963 Ragtop

[VW_Jimbo]

What is the black wire that is attached to the outside case of the switch going to? That is supposed to be a ground, circuit 31, solid brown wire. Black is an ignition “run” wire, 15 circuit.
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Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[crankbait09]

That is my ground wire. If I remember right, the PO had a bright yellow wire for it. I didn't have brown, so I used black. But its definitely a ground wire
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1963 Ragtop

[sb001]

I am fairly certain you have some stuff miswired at both the switches and the fuse box which is why I need to see a better photo of the wiring at the fuse box.
I especially say that because your flasher switch is not being saved by a fuse which it should be.


I also drudged up this photo from one of your past posts:

Where is the other end of that loose gray wire connected right now? I ask because according to the wiring diagram that wire should not be there. There should only be 2 wires (both black) connected to that terminal- the wire bringing in switched ignition power from fuse #2, and then the other smaller black wire carrying power from that terminal over to the fuel gauge vibrator on your speedometer.

Also, which side of fuse #2 is that black wire connected to? Unfused (closest to dashboard) or fused (closest to front of car)? It should be connected to the fused side of #2. If you have it running from the unfused side of fuse #2, that is also where switched ignition power comes in to the fuse box. So you could be sending switched ignition power straight to the flasher switch without it ever running through a fuse.
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I'm the humblest guy on this board.

1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor

[crankbait09]

I'm attaching a couple more photos but it's easier for me to explain where that loose wire is going. (hopefully).

I'm also attaching the terminal layout (hand drawing)
the terminal numbers on the switches are hard to read, at least for me.

That loose wire is connected to terminal 50a on the emergency switch. That same wire terminal has a black wire tapped into it as well. These look to be original wires.

From terminal 50a, the black wire goes to the 2nd fuse on the right (drivers side), if you're looking at the fuse box while under the hood. The gray wire that you asked about leaves terminal 50 and is supposed to go to the small spade terminal 58b on the normal switch. I do not have the correct switch in place so the small spade terminal does not exist. which is why that wire is loose.

the black wire that goes to fuse 2 leaves fuse 2 and goes up to the speedometer.

Does this help any?

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1963 Ragtop

[sb001]

Do the following:

1. Take the red wire you currently have running to the unfused side of fuse #9 (the side closest to the dash of the car) and plug it into the unused 30 terminal on your headlight switch.

2. Take the red wire currently running from the headlight switch to the fused side of fuse #9 (the side closest to the front of the car); unplug that end at the fuse box and plug it into the UNFUSED side of fuse #9 (where you just had the other wire plugged in.)

(Be careful not to allow these wires to touch metal while making these changes, as they are straight 12v battery power and do NOT go through any fuses!)

3. Now, on your emergency flasher switch, swap the wires plugged into terminals 49 and 49a. (These are backwards.)

4. Lastly, tape up the loose end of that gray wire with electrical tape or some such, so it cannot accidentally contact any metal surface and cause a short.

See if any of this fixes the issue.
_________________
I'm the humblest guy on this board.

1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor

[crankbait09]

I will do this and report back. (thank you!)
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1963 Ragtop

[sb001]

Also, where you have the black wire running into fuse #2 from the 50a terminal on your flasher switch, make sure that it is plugged into the FUSED side of fuse #2 (again the side toward the front of the car.)
_________________
I'm the humblest guy on this board.

1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor

[sb001]

Follow this diagram for wiring connections at your headlight switch:

and follow this diagram for wiring connections at the flasher switch:

_________________
I'm the humblest guy on this board.

1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor

[crankbait09]

finally got back to this....

got the new flasher switch in place, and placed the wires according to the instructions above. tried turning the engine over and didn't get no smoke/popping sounds from the flasher switch. i think we're good there.

the headlight switch is now smoking. i only got a few cranks in before i saw smoke, and i immediately stopped cranking. not sure if the red 30 terminal wires are my issue. those are the only ones i messed with.

with the headlight switch button on the right, i have the main red coming from the battery connected to the terminal at the top left corner. the terminal just to the right of that, i have the ignition switch red wire. right below that, on the 3rd terminal 30, I have the red wire coming from un-fused terminal #9 (closest to the dash)

after making these changes, I do have dash lights now

any idea why my headlight switch is smoking? I'm sure I have another wire crossed, but I can't figure out which one.

(I placed electrical tape around the 3 terminal connectors to make sure they didn't touch each other)

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1963 Ragtop

[sb001]

If you are getting dash lights all the time (even when the headlight switch is not on) then you have a straight short inside the headlight switch between one of the 30 terminals and the 58b terminal where the grey/ red stripe wire is coming off and going over to the dash lights. This would probably also explain the smoking.
It's worth a try popping open the headlight switch and seeing if the small circuit board inside is jammed at an angle where one of those 30 terminals may be rubbing against the housing, or otherwise compromised.
_________________
I'm the humblest guy on this board.

1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor

[crankbait09]

I havent had a chance to get back out there, but i will double check my wiring and look at that switch.

Ill post any findings here
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1963 Ragtop