Turbo Ghia More Air

[Michaellatini]

Hello All,

Would like to get more air into the engine bay. I have a Ghia with a 2.0ltr turbo. Was wondering if, cutting holes in the deck lid behind the license plate would be helpful or harmful?

Thank you for reading and any thoughts or ideas.

M

[slalombuggy]

There is a 190mph Ghia that graphed another set of decklid grills into the back of the decklid to get more air . Seems to have worked out alright.

[NJ John]

I got this pic from your gallery. Yeah, you definitely need to move some air through there.

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1973 standard, yellow, lowered, 3” narrowed front, 1600 blo-thru turbo w/single dell 15.4@86, so far
11.41 et buggy. Long gone
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[SBD]

Maybe some spacers between the hinges and deck lid to make the lid work like a scoop. Would be simple to try with some short pieces of aluminum/steel tubing and longer bolts.
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"Just $99 down and $64 a month for 36 months buys you a brand new Volkswagen Beetle!"

[Michaellatini]

Thanks to everyone for your input.

What I’m wondering is with drilling holes in the deck lid behind the license plate. Be a problem for airflow and or the engine temperatures?

Thank you again.

[oprn]

Do you not have any positive air flow through the intercooler? A fan? You will need that and it needs to exit the engine compartment or it will preheat the cooling air for the engine.

Oh ya! You definitely need more airflow in that engine compartment! A lot more! A few holes behind the license plate will be diddely squat compared to what you really need! Not only do you need more air in for that intercooler, you also need someplace for it to move out. You can get a good idea about the size needed for both by measuring the surface area of that intercooler. A slightly smaller inlet could do the trick if there is a good strong fan involved.

One of the problems with our air cooled VWs is that the rear of the car where we are trying to get this air to move is in a low pressure area. Front engine cars have the advantage of the high pressure from the air trying to get around the front of the car.
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Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old!

[Michaellatini]

Thank you oprn. I guess I’ll have to lift the deck lid a tad. No fan on the inter cooler so far. 87 degree and humid day the air intake temps never reached 140 degrees. That was a 50 mile cruise with a few wot shots. Trying to get it down to 100 if possible.

[oprn]

I guess your saving grace is that the car is small and light so in not on boost for more than a handful of seconds at any given time.
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Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old!

[Wreck]

I plan to do an air flow test ,stick bits of wool across the base of the back screen and film it at 100km to see where the airflow goes , if raising front of the boot does any good. Haven't got around to it yet .

[BFB]

[zerotofifty]

try propping open the deck lid a bit, place a block,of wood or such over the latch as a spacer, duct tape in place. this will serve as an experiment to see what holes in the decklid may do in regards to airflow and engine temperature
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[oprn]

[oprn]

[slalombuggy]

You need a lot more air, you need a hole the size of your license plate not a couple behind it. You need to get rhe gear from the intercooler out of tge engine compartment so you're not preheating the cooling air

If you lift the front of your lid on the hinges make sure your latch still works unless you like listening to you lid banging open and closed on the freeway.

[clonebug]

Your exhaust is contributing heat to your engine compartment along with the turbo.
The turbo itself will heat the air going thru it about 10-20* F. depending on the ambient air temps.
The turbo is also adding heat to the engine compartment.
My turbo consistently adds about 20*F to the incoming air and it's on an open buggy.
The intercooler will warm underhood the air a little bit but it will depend on how much air the cooling fan is drawing.

I have a 3.5" thick 7" X 7" intercooler and it will pull about 40 degrees off my boosted temps. I do have a 7 inch fan that activates as soon as it sees >100 kpa or 105 degrees IAT's.

It would be best if you could get your intake out of the engine compartment so it can draw cool ambient air. That will help some.

Here is a pic of my cruise temps on my Digital Dash.

The MAT (Manifold Air Temp) on the upper right is normal for cruising temps in the summer and is pretty well exactly 20 degrees above ambient on that day.
I consider 140 degree too high for cruising temps unless the ambient temps are over 105* F. I have my ECU start pulling timing at anything over 105 degrees IAT's.
My Ignition map takes care of pulling timing on boost.
I have seen 130* F cruise temps once when driving in 105* ambient's near Barstow, Ca.

In my experience....130* F. is about the limit before detonation sets in unless you retard the crap out of your timing.

What is your induction setup??? Carb? EFI?
If EFI do you have a log of a drive or a pic of the log on a boost run???

I use a dual nozzle Water/Alcohol Injection setup that is homemade. It's been tried and tested for 10 years now. It will pull 100* F. out of my boosted IAT's.
In normal driving I can go over 1000 miles on 3 quarts of 50/50 mix. I have gone as far as 4500 miles on a 4 quart tank of water mix.

At 22-26 lbs boost in the fall/winter/spring I can keep my IAT's below 90* F.

I'm impressed with your packaging skills. That is some nice plumbing and must have taken quite a few test fits and thinking..... along with many "What If's".
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[johnnyvw164]

I had a 71 Ghia in the late 70's/early 80's that I made some spacers to lift the front of the engine lid up. Simply machined steel bar stock to length (I think they were somewhere in the range of 3/4 to 1") and drilled a hole through the center and used longer bolts. IIRC, the hood latch worked fine once I got everything lined up correctly.
If I ever find my old photo albums, I may have a picture.

[Stripped66]

[Michaellatini]

[Michaellatini]

[quote="slalombuggy"]You need a lot more air, you need a hole the size of your license plate not a couple behind it. You need to get rhe gear from the intercooler out of tge engine compartment so you're not preheating the cooling air

SB are you saying remove the intercooler or the air from the intercooler from the engine bay? Whichever it is, do you have a suggestion on how?

Thank you, M

[Michaellatini]

It would be best if you could get your intake out of the engine compartment so it can draw cool ambient air. That will help some.

Thank you, CB for the info, it's very valuable!
Where would you run the pipe for fresh air intake? I thought about trying to make an airbox against the decklid where I was thinking about cutting holes behind the license plate. It's a straight shot from the turbo inlet. That might be way more work than someone else's ideas.

What is your induction setup??? Carb? EFI?
If EFI do you have a log of a drive or a pic of the log on a boost run???

It is EFI and the ignition is EFI and it's set to pull timing. I also have the boosted area of the table set to only 8*btdc and then pull timing from there so, it's pretty conservative for now.

My goal is to get to 15psi of boost. Currently it's set to 9psi max.

I'm impressed with your packaging skills. That is some nice plumbing and must have taken quite a few test fits and thinking..... along with many "What If's".[/quote][i][/i]

Thanks for noticing the tight fit. Lot's of what if's, and test fits!

Over the 3 years I have been putting this car together, I have read just about all of your info on the subject and it's been valuable and inspiring! Thank you for all of it.

I have a couple of questions. The answers are most likely in your posts but, just being lazy.
Where is the MAT sensor located? Pre or post throttle plate?
Where is the CLT sensor located? What type of sensor is it?

Thanks, M