Help, new engine won't start

[Tenknots]

I built a 1600 engine for my 71 SB with all new parts. I rebuilt a Solex 30/31 PICT for it. Installed a new EMPI electronic ignition dizzy, new wires and coil designed for the distributor. Filled it with break in oil, stuck the fuel line in a jug and cranked. The engine turns over well and fast (new battery) but refuses to fire. The oil pressure light goes off after a bit of cranking. I've checked that I am getting spark. (new plugs and coil) and I can see a spark when I ground out the plug to the engine. I can see fuel being sucked up by the fuel pump (temporarily installed a see-through filter at the end). I have poured a little gas in the carb. Nothing. I have sprayed starting spray while cranking. Nothing. Out of a total of maybe five minutes of cranking over two days I have have gotten maybe a couple of pops. No backfires. The engine spins strong. Manually rotating it I can tell compression is good and I can feel air from the exhaust pipes while cranking. I have checked the valves twice more just in case (they were not off). I have set the #1 cylinder at TDC (verified it was at TDC with valve cover off and both valves were closed). The crank pulley lines up with mark while it's at TDC. The distributor rotor points to number 1 plug wire. Plugs are in order CW on distributor - 1,4,3,2. Wires run correctly to cylinders. I even reversed the wires in case it was 180 off and nothing.

I would think if the timing was off, even way off I'd still get a few pops or even backfires. But even when starting fluid is sprayed into the carb it never even fires once.

I've checked the continuity of the plug wires - all ok (they are new anyway).
I removed the carb. Bowl had fuel in it. (Note: I have not rebuilt a carb before but there really wasn't much to it but I suppose I could have made a mistake somewhere. One thing I noticed is that when actuating the carb lever, no fuel is squirted from the accelerator pump nozzle). The butterflies seem to open properly. No air or fuel leaks. I checked the 1 and 2 plugs several times for spark, I can always see it so I don't think it's the distributor. But again, starting fluid or a little gas poured into the carb does nothing.

I feel like I'm missing something big and/or stupid. Compression, fuel and spark. But no start.

What am I missing or what should I look for?

[1600man]

You might try adjusting the distributor a few degrees each direction. If you have fuel and spark and it's sparking at the right time it should fire.

Maybe while fixing the accelerator pump you'll discover something that you missed. But with gas poured down the carb it should run for a few seconds.
_________________
1970 VW beetle
(1973 1600DP)
1972 Cutlass
(1970) 455

[Tenknots]

[viiking]

If you are sure it's not 180 degrees out, set the electronic dizzy to fire at the BTDC mark on your pulley. Whatever it is 7.5 or 10 degrees BTDC. Then repeat.

The relevant BTDC angle should be documented on the car or in the archive section.
_________________
1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3

[bsairhead]

Are your plugs dry? I would think they would be really wet if it's getting fuel. Have you tried to palm choke it?

[Blandyp]

[pondoras box]

It won’t fire on starting fluid but you verified spark, my next step would be check the compression using the tool that threads into the spark plug hole. You need three things fuel oxygen mix, spark, and compression. You already verified the first two. What was the compression ratio set at when building the engine?
_________________
Looking for anything from Hal Casey Motors out of Hamburg New York, from license plate surrounds to matchbooks.

1961 23 Window (Bobo)
1965 11 Window (Zelda). https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=563183
1965 13 Window (Lucas)
1957 Oval ragtop
1960 hardtop
1964 hardtop
1965 hardtop
Another 65 hardtop
1973 standard bug
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=804912
1988 Cabriolet VR6 conversion

[bugger-off]

Do you have an old-style tried-and-true distributor with points? Throw that on there and try it. I've had nothing but bad luck with electronic distributors, especially Pertronix, and will never bother again. Some people here have had positive experiences with them but every one I ever got was junk or went bad.

[Tenknots]

[viiking]

[pondoras box]

If he was 180 I think he would get backfires at least. That’s been my experience anyway.
_________________
Looking for anything from Hal Casey Motors out of Hamburg New York, from license plate surrounds to matchbooks.

1961 23 Window (Bobo)
1965 11 Window (Zelda). https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=563183
1965 13 Window (Lucas)
1957 Oval ragtop
1960 hardtop
1964 hardtop
1965 hardtop
Another 65 hardtop
1973 standard bug
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=804912
1988 Cabriolet VR6 conversion

[pondoras box]

Do you remember your deck heights and cc’s of your heads?
_________________
Looking for anything from Hal Casey Motors out of Hamburg New York, from license plate surrounds to matchbooks.

1961 23 Window (Bobo)
1965 11 Window (Zelda). https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=563183
1965 13 Window (Lucas)
1957 Oval ragtop
1960 hardtop
1964 hardtop
1965 hardtop
Another 65 hardtop
1973 standard bug
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=804912
1988 Cabriolet VR6 conversion

[viiking]

[viiking]

I have no experience with the Empi electronic distributor.

Does it come with the drive dog at the bottom already installed? On a normal distributor you can actually install the dog out by 180 degrees and it will still fit into the case's drive.
_________________
1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3

[bomberbob]

I am probably repeating the same thing previous posts have said, but essentially all the motor needs to run, or at least temporarily run and then die is the fuel and air mix, enough compression, and then that spark at precisely the right time. If the combustion chamber CC is not known, then break out the compression tester and see what you have. If you are within spec, then you need to determine correct ignition timing. Look at the timing marks on the pulley, compared to the rocker arm position to make sure you are not 180 degrees out. I would fool with fuel last. If the plugs are not fuel or oil fouled, either ether or a little gasoline squirted should be enough to light off, even if its only a momentary burst. Please do a compression test and report your findings.
_________________
1968 Beetle torn apart again
1990 Jetta GLI megasquirted, burning E85 (currently in storage)
2004 Jetta turbo GLI
Marion, Iowa

[Schepp]

If everything needed for the engine to run has been verified and still wont start. I suspect the distributor drive gear was installed wrong. Its an easy mistake to make.
Even with a poor static time it'll still start.
The accelerator pump issue will need to be addressed sooner than later. You can still bottle feed the engine right down the throat.

I'd put it back at #1 compression stroke TDC. Take off the cap and see where the rotor is. Not every distributor has #1 in the same position. My Pertronix SVDA for example was different than the 009 that came out. The Pertronix didn't even have the mark on the rim for #1. I had to mark it. Reverify the plug wires are correct. Remove the distributor and look down the hole.

Take a pic for us. Specifically the orientation of the drive gear slot. I bet its incorrect.

[Tenknots]

[pondoras box]

Ok last time I going to respond here. We need to know your compression ratio numbers. I know you feel compression even 5:1 will give you feed back. But will not be enough to start. Without this very important reading no one here can give you any usable advice. It’s the next step. You are verifying two of the three needed elements to run. You can eliminate fuel issues with the starting fluid, you are using starting fluid and not brake cleaner right? You see spark so points condenser and coil is working. You distributor is rotating. We are at the point of it being internal. So start with compression check. Next is to see if your cam is rotating. Yes they can snap clean off and the distributor will still rotate. If your sure your getting fuel to your cylinders. If you’re not 100% sure check that you don’t have tape over an intake runner or something.
_________________
Looking for anything from Hal Casey Motors out of Hamburg New York, from license plate surrounds to matchbooks.

1961 23 Window (Bobo)
1965 11 Window (Zelda). https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=563183
1965 13 Window (Lucas)
1957 Oval ragtop
1960 hardtop
1964 hardtop
1965 hardtop
Another 65 hardtop
1973 standard bug
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=804912
1988 Cabriolet VR6 conversion

[vamram]

[Schepp]

If I understand correctly... basically what you're saying is that you too suspect the drive gear was installed incorrectly. Though instead of taking the time to fix that issue, you're going to work around it and proceed anyways?

I think I'm done here.
Best of luck.