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porkchop-rob
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Joined: April 28, 2015
Posts: 460
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 Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2025 7:39 am Post subject: Subaru to Type 1 |
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I purchased my 1976 Bay Window Riviera Camper with a 2.5L Subaru engine installed. It works and runs and does not have any real glaring mechanical problems. That said, the install is NOT impressive. I have cleaned up some items and I continue to try and make it better, but it has a ways to go. The Subi pushes the bus well and does highway speeds, although it seems like its screaming at 60-65MPH. Last weekend I was able to flat tow my son's Baja Beetle 4ish hours away and back without issue. The Subaru engine did not complain and I had no overheating or other engine issues.
All of that said... I keep getting this feeling that the bus SHOULD have a VW engine in it. The Subaru isn't as impressive in power or as world changing as I expected. It also doesn't "sound" like a VW to me.
From those who have owned both... have I lost my mind? Should I just keep cleaning up this Subi swap and be happy with it? Is there anything to gain by going back to an Air Cooled engine?
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1965 Beetle
1968 Beetle Baja (Son's First Car)
1976 Bus with Subaru (Wife's Riviera Camper) |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 23466
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2025 7:42 am Post subject: Re: Subaru to Type 1 |
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If its "screaming" at highway speed....sounds like a gear ratio issue. Keep in mind that an aircooled engine with the same transmission will be screaming along at the same rpm at highway speed.
Ray |
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porkchop-rob
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Joined: April 28, 2015
Posts: 460
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2025 7:51 am Post subject: Re: Subaru to Type 1 |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
If its "screaming" at highway speed....sounds like a gear ratio issue. Keep in mind that an aircooled engine with the same transmission will be screaming along at the same rpm at highway speed.
Ray |
Yes. Agreed. There is a lot of vibration or rattle from the Subaru engine at these RPMs. This is the only one I have ever worked on or owned. Maybe this is normal? Maybe its the way this engine is mounted to the bus? Maybe this is Buses in general, Im honestly not sure. By comparison, my Beetle (air-bagged, very low, smaller than stock diameter tires) seems happy to run 3500+ RPMs on the freeway. While not quiet, its very smooth and comfortable at these RPMs.
My sons Baja with 30-31 inch tires is absolutely chill at 65-70mph.
All three of these vehicles have "stock" transmissions with the factory gearing to my knowledge.
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1965 Beetle
1968 Beetle Baja (Son's First Car)
1976 Bus with Subaru (Wife's Riviera Camper) |
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67rustavenger
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Joined: February 24, 2015
Posts: 11522
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2025 7:55 am Post subject: Re: Subaru to Type 1 |
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Revert back to a T1? No way, the deed is already done.
I have a number of friends that have Vanagons that are Subi powered.
I have ridden in one of them and can say that it is a smooth running engine that has plenty of power to get the job done.
Troy bombs his van 750+ miles from Vancouver Wa, to the Bonneville Salt flats in one go and the van never gives him any problems.
Continue cleaning up the Subi installation and run it.
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Rob Combs
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Joined: December 30, 2020
Posts: 836
Location: South Bay LA, California
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2025 8:18 am Post subject: Re: Subaru to Type 1 |
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Can you fit some larger-diameter tires to it, even if a temporary test?
That’d slow the engine down, if that is indeed the root of the problem… |
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porkchop-rob
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Joined: April 28, 2015
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2025 8:59 am Post subject: Re: Subaru to Type 1 |
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| Rob Combs wrote: |
Can you fit some larger-diameter tires to it, even if a temporary test?
That’d slow the engine down, if that is indeed the root of the problem… |
I do not believe that a slightly taller tire would be any magic bullet. A couple hundred rpms one way or the other does not seem to make much difference to NVH. I have considered trying to go slightly taller on the tires, changing ring and pinion (if possible) and even looked into a 5spd, I'm not sure the juice is worth the squeeze.
What I DO know... 1. The bus is smooth and quiet once you push in the clutch OR load the engine (accelerate or climb a hill). 2. The bus is smooth and quiet in town/under 55MPH. 3. The vibration is NOT always consistent. Sometimes a small change in RPM or load can affect the perceived rattle. 4. I have spent a good amount of effort trying to secure coolant lines and heat shields and radiator shroud etc. in an attempt to arrest anything that could be causing the issue.
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1965 Beetle
1968 Beetle Baja (Son's First Car)
1976 Bus with Subaru (Wife's Riviera Camper) |
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ps2375
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Joined: April 24, 2014
Posts: 2547
Location: Meridian,ID
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2025 9:25 am Post subject: Re: Subaru to Type 1 |
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I know that when I had a 98 and then a 00 Outbacks with the 2.5L motors w/ manual trannies, they would sit comfortably a 4K rpm @ 80mph. Stock tire size and be as smooth as butter. That is how they were geared to make them feel some what spirited in town. They would get 25mpg in town and slightly worse at 65mph and about 20mpg on interstate.
If it is vibrating harshly, it's not the motor, but mounts and other stuff. |
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porkchop-rob
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Joined: April 28, 2015
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2025 10:06 am Post subject: Re: Subaru to Type 1 |
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| ps2375 wrote: |
I know that when I had a 98 and then a 00 Outbacks with the 2.5L motors w/ manual trannies, they would sit comfortably a 4K rpm @ 80mph. Stock tire size and be as smooth as butter. That is how they were geared to make them feel some what spirited in town. They would get 25mpg in town and slightly worse at 65mph and about 20mpg on interstate.
If it is vibrating harshly, it's not the motor, but mounts and other stuff. |
This is excellent information, Thank You.
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1965 Beetle
1968 Beetle Baja (Son's First Car)
1976 Bus with Subaru (Wife's Riviera Camper) |
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DesertSasquatchXploration
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Joined: April 16, 2021
Posts: 1060
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2025 10:37 am Post subject: Re: Subaru to Type 1 |
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| ps2375 wrote: |
I know that when I had a 98 and then a 00 Outbacks with the 2.5L motors w/ manual trannies, they would sit comfortably a 4K rpm @ 80mph. Stock tire size and be as smooth as butter. That is how they were geared to make them feel some what spirited in town. They would get 25mpg in town and slightly worse at 65mph and about 20mpg on interstate.
If it is vibrating harshly, it's not the motor, but mounts and other stuff. |
That's funny my buddy bought a subi crosstrek when they first came out 5 speed manual 3300RPM on the highway its a buzz box not smooth in the least my Type 1 one is smoother and quieter at the same RPM. he kept it for 6 months and dumped it started using oil the seats would kill your back after 45mins. |
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ps2375
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Joined: April 24, 2014
Posts: 2547
Location: Meridian,ID
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2025 10:48 am Post subject: Re: Subaru to Type 1 |
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| DesertSasquatchXploration wrote: |
| ps2375 wrote: |
I know that when I had a 98 and then a 00 Outbacks with the 2.5L motors w/ manual trannies, they would sit comfortably a 4K rpm @ 80mph. Stock tire size and be as smooth as butter. That is how they were geared to make them feel some what spirited in town. They would get 25mpg in town and slightly worse at 65mph and about 20mpg on interstate.
If it is vibrating harshly, it's not the motor, but mounts and other stuff. |
That's funny my buddy bought a subi crosstrek when they first came out 5 speed manual 3300RPM on the highway its a buzz box not smooth in the least my Type 1 one is smoother and quieter at the same RPM. he kept it for 6 months and dumped it started using oil the seats would kill your back after 45mins. |
I don't know what they've become over the last 20+ years, but that is what they were, the '98 was the DOHC motor and the '00 was a SOHC motor. If they didn't have the HG issue, they would've been bullet proof. I preferred the DOHC, but not by much. |
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raygreenwood
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Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2025 11:42 am Post subject: Re: Subaru to Type 1 |
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And just to be sure you know....your 1976 bus would have come with a type 4 engine in it. A bit more bulletproof in its basic form than a type 1 in its basic form but still expensive.
Ray |
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porkchop-rob
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Joined: April 28, 2015
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2025 12:48 pm Post subject: Re: Subaru to Type 1 |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
And just to be sure you know....your 1976 bus would have come with a type 4 engine in it. A bit more bulletproof in its basic form than a type 1 in its basic form but still expensive.
Ray |
You are correct. I have less than zero experience with a type 4. I thought it was somewhat common to convert backward to the type 1 just due to parts availability and abundance of general knowledge.
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1965 Beetle
1968 Beetle Baja (Son's First Car)
1976 Bus with Subaru (Wife's Riviera Camper) |
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NJ John
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Location: HdG, MD & NJ
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2025 2:03 pm Post subject: Re: Subaru to Type 1 |
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I’m sure the bus forum has a ton of input.
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RLFD213
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Joined: January 21, 2009
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2025 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: Subaru to Type 1 |
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| Is it screaming like a bearing is bad or something in the transmission, or is it screaming like the final drive is to high and it needs to different gear ratio. Have you checked the gear oil in the transmission? |
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panel
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Joined: December 02, 2001
Posts: 1226
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2025 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: Subaru to Type 1 |
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| Rob Combs wrote: |
Can you fit some larger-diameter tires to it, even if a temporary test?
That’d slow the engine down, if that is indeed the root of the problem… |
I changed the rear tires from 195.50.15 to a 205.60.15 and for me it made a difference.
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oprn
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Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 15209
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2025 5:52 am Post subject: Re: Subaru to Type 1 |
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I wonder if the conversion parts, flywheel and pressure plate are off balance or holes drilled off center.
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Dusty1
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2025 7:26 am Post subject: Re: Subaru to Type 1 |
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The full Subi swap is to swap the Subi 5 speed transmission as well. That way you have gearing suited to the Japanese motor and a very useful overdrive. The bad news? By the time you swap the engine and transmission, you could easily have purchased another Volkswagen.
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BFB
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2025 8:03 am Post subject: Re: Subaru to Type 1 |
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| Dusty1 wrote: |
The full Subi swap is to swap the Subi 5 speed transmission as well. That way you have gearing suited to the Japanese motor and a very useful overdrive. The bad news? By the time you swap the engine and transmission, you could easily have purchased another Volkswagen.
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from what ive read if you use the subie trans you really need to change the R&P because stock is geared too high.read plenty of posts where 5 was so high it was unusable ... last I looked at subarugears.com their R&P was like $1500, plus the kit to eliminate AWD output on top of that.
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Dusty1
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2025 12:25 pm Post subject: Re: Subaru to Type 1 |
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| BFB wrote: |
| ...read plenty of posts where 5 was so high it was unusable ... |
I thought you liked to drive fast? 
I wouldn't mind havin' a Bug geared for a zillion mph for the Freeway out West and the Thruway back East. Just the ticket pardon the pun for the sharing the road with the Audi, BMW, Porsche, and Lexus SUV crowd. Just when they think they're gonna blaze past my old Volkswagen like they always do...
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oprn
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| Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2025 3:03 am Post subject: Re: Subaru to Type 1 |
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| Dusty1 wrote: |
| BFB wrote: |
| ...read plenty of posts where 5 was so high it was unusable ... |
I thought you liked to drive fast?
I wouldn't mind havin' a Bug geared for a zillion mph for the Freeway out West and the Thruway back East. Just the ticket pardon the pun for the sharing the road with the Audi, BMW, Porsche, and Lexus SUV crowd. Just when they think they're gonna blaze past my old Volkswagen like they always do...
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That right there is a game you will never win. No matter how fast you drive there is always an idiot out there that HAS TO blaze past! The only time I ever won that contest was at high altitude up long mountain passes with my turbo Rabbit. Suddenly I was passing big block Chrysler New Yorkers like they were going backwards! These days with all the turbo SUVs out there that might not be a reality anymore either.
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