Gap around engine tin question

[mcjweller]

So, I have the body back on the pan on my '64 beetle. Things seem to be lined up, but I noticed the gap between the engine tin and the body (excluding the seal) is around half an inch on the passenger side, and 1/8" on the drivers. That seems off.

My first though was that perhaps the body just needs to shift toward the passenger side (no bolts in the pan yet...)

But, that's not possible. There is less than 1/8" clearance between the body and the rear shock mounts on both sides, meaning side-to-side adjustment is more or less impossible.

The motor is a new build, but the tins simply are not that far different from side to side (and if they were, the front and rear tins would not line up).

So is this normal? The seal does cover the gap all around regardless, my concern is that 1/8" seems tight when you factor in the fact that the motor moves...

[Dan22]

Make sure your rear transmission mounts are mounted such that the transmission is centered in the cradle. There should be a notch in the cradle indicating center. This would affect the left/right position of the engine.
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=765074

[mcjweller]

That makes a lot of sense but I'm not sure where the adjustment opportunity is.

Where the mount bolts pass through the bell housing, there are no slots. Nor are there slots in the mount tangs for the cradle, or the cradle itself. That leaves the large bolts into the end of the two frame ends, I don't recall those being slotted either. Am I missing something?

[OldSchoolVW's]

[mcjweller]

All the mounts front and rear are new.

Again, the studs coming from where the trans mounts in are fixed in position, and there is no side to side adjustment in the mount (or in the old one that came off) They are not slotted...

I still think I'm missing something, it makes sense to adjust side to side, but I don't see how when none of the fastener holes are slotted to allow it.

[Schnitzelfuss]

Did you do any body work on the car while it was off the frame?

[mcjweller]

Excellent question...I did, but it was fixtured/braced first and the centerline of the body was found and marked before anything was done. And re-checked several times along the way. Things seem to have stayed true with good alignment with the body and the pan.

That was my first assumption actually, that something shifted...but if it did everything else would be out of alignment also and frankly it all seems pretty good.

That being said, it occurs to me to go check the seal flange itself on the drivers side. Its just tin and over the years could get bent out - this would close the gap. Close it that much? Seems excessive but worth a look.

I do like the logic though of alignment of the T-case and engine...I just can't see how to adjust that without slotted holes. But I'm not above admitting if there is something simple I'm just missing. I did not notice before pulling the old motor if that alignment problem was pre-existing, I wish now I had!

[Bobs67vwagen]

Will the engine bay seal completely close up the gap on both sides? If not, you could add some seal material to the side with the gap by glueing additional rubber to it. Just a thought instead of driving yourself crazy over something that may have existed from day 1 with your car.

[mcjweller]

Yes the seal is great actually, from Wolfsburg West. LOTS of material and no problems at all covering the gaps. Nice material also.

Today, I'll go take a closer look at things, I'm willing to bet that it will be a series of minor adjustments here and there to get things dialed in.

Yes...it could have been that way all along FWIW, but I'm curious if anyone else has experienced that. Its hard to know what the "factory tolerance" would have been...

[Schnitzelfuss]

I asked about body work because if one replaces a rear shock tower, it’s quite possible that any small misalignment there can result in alignment problems elsewhere, or as in your circumstances, the inability to adjust the body as much as before the metal work.
I agree that other than making sure everything is in good shape and installed correctly there is little if anything one can do at the transmission mounts to adjust engine alignment, at least with factory mounts.
Did you check to ensure there’s no interference at the outer mount edges with the frame horn? It s tight clearance there even paint and a tiny misalignment of the large bolts to the mount can bind the mount against the horn back there.

[mcjweller]

I think I found the problem...

I was inspecting it closely today looking at all the typical interference points and not seeing anything.

I lifted the body up and put it back down slowly...at this moment the heater in the shop switched off so it was quiet.

I as I guided the body down, in the last few inches it pushed to the passenger side (and I only noticed it because I was pushing it to the drivers side by hand) and you could hear a light rub that you couldn't hear before. Lifted it and did it again, chased it down to the passenger rear.

Tracked further to the muffler.

There I saw some previous damage inside the passenger side apron bottom (below the bumper mounts). The "J" profile was pulled out to almost an "L", and it was hitting the heat tube off the muffler.

I got out the body hammers and a dolly and straightened that up, this opened up the drivers side to 3/8" gap from 1/8", and reduced the passenger side from 3/4" to 1/2". So a different from side to side of 1.8", I can live with that.

However, now that the "J" profile has been restored to its correct shape...the heat tube still rubs.

This was a dansk muffler, supposedly "top quality" from CIP1. It's not. It had fitment issues onto the heads (flanges not welded in the right positions), lost all its paint within 30 seconds of first start up, and now interferes with stock body construction. Beware the aftermarket...though I had no other options...

Schnitzelfuss - yes agree on the shock tower areas, and yes I did do work on those but I built a fixture first to make sure the contact points would remain the same in all directions.

[Bobs67vwagen]

Glad you found your problem-that was a strange one.

[zerotofifty]

dansk I have found make crappy quality. Just saying.
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[mcjweller]

Definitely agree. Basically, every connection point on this thing has a problem dimensionally, and the P-side heater tube is too long so it's bend radius interferes with the sides of the engine compartment underneath.

Not to mention it literally caught fire on first start-up from whatever "paint" they used.

I'll never buy another Dansk muffler again!