1776 build turns a corner and runs (finally...)

[mcjweller]

Well, finally tonight I managed to do the cam break-in on my 1776 build. So many people have offered information and advice, I would like to say thank you. And, for all who helped along the way I should mention how things went.

So first off, it wasn't without unnecessary drama. I had a 4 hour break in my work schedule today and figured that would be enough time, and the weather here is unusually warm so a rare day to have the garage door open (it has been unusually cold as of late, like -14 C or 6.8 F if you prefer.

The drama was that I put the positive power on the wrong side of the coil, because I let myself get distracted as I was doing it. Burned up the points before I even had a chance to crank it. Had some help locally for some spare parts to cobble it together enough to run. Thank God for that!

So on to the break in. Carbs primed with fuel, all the connections good, battery on, so hit the starter button. It started immediately and sprang up to about 3500 RPM so I wrestled it down to 2000 immediately. Oil pressure right away also. After a couple of minutes, both carbs started backfiring, static timing was right so I shut it down. Checked everything and realized I had pulled the vacuum advance line off the distributer by accident. Would not have expected it to make that much difference but, it did.

In the meantime, the muffler got hot. Real hot, all the paint burned off. I know it wasn't running lean, and head temperature didn't seem that bad at the outlets (if anything it was cool, outlets were around 280 F). It was a brand new Dansk muffler. Internal blockage? Not sure but I didn't expect 100% of the paint to blister and burn (quite literally) to white powder.

Anyway, vacuum line back on, started immediately again and I brought it back to 2000 RPM's and held it there for about 15 minutes. (well lets be honest, 2000 - 2400 as it would drift a little and I would keep bringing it back) Ran smooth to be honest, and consistent, no more backfiring. Engine temp seemed stable, wasn't getting super hot. The thermostat and the vent baffles were doing their thing as well. After 15 minutes I varied it between 2000 and 3000 and even a couple of quick blips (but nothing above 3000). At 20 minutes shut it down.

No leaks

No strange noises.

40 psi oil pressure consistently (actually expected a little more but, hey...)

Truth be told I don't like shutting down in the middle of a cam break in, but sometimes its necessary or at least less risk of damage than continuing on. I think I got away with it anyway, keeping in mind these are stock springs (soft) and the cam is mild (Engel 100).

So I turned a page. Learned volumes of information. The process of building a motor almost entirely from aftermarket parts (albeit supposedly high quality ones) combined with the counter-intuitive-engineering-for-a-non-VW-guy stuff, made me question my own sanity more than once. The whole thing in retrospect feels more like an initiation, than a build.

Only real casualty was the muffler paint. Easy enough to pull that off and re-paint with something more suitable. Tomorrow when it's stone cold I'll change the oil and filter, adjust the valves if needed, and get on tuning and balancing the carbs.

Below are some pics I took a couple of days ago, no pics during break in, had my mind on other things!

[slayer61]

Very well done Sir!
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[early]

Good job!

First startup and cam break-in can be nerve wracking. I've only done a few and it is always
A cross your fingers moment. Good fun to see all of your work do what it's supposed to.

Now don't fiddle with it too long , idleing and adjusting carbs and stuff. It really needs some good hard pulls under a load to break in the rings. Plenty of threads around here to read about that.

Good luck
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[mcjweller]

Yep...although the hard pulls will wait 5 months. Car now has to be fully assembled, and we're in the middle of winter here and we really do love our excessive road salt where I am.

Saw a comment on another post from Glenn who said:

"I do (2) 20 minute cam breakins along with oil change and valve adjust after each.

Then drive it like you stole it."

I'm actually interested to know what advantage this brings (not sarcasm...I have the opportunity to do this now if there is an advantage, so why not).

[Bobs67vwagen]

The expression drive it like you stole it always meant to me that you drive it like you do not care what happens to it, and pushing everything to the limit. The only car in my life I ever drove like that was a corvair that was given to me that I was driving to the junkyard to get 25 dollars for it. I would drive your new engine with enthusiasm without winding every gear out to the max and I also think using brakes aggressively is much better than downshifting to slow down. Save the downshifting for when you really need it.

[Brian_e]

The goal is to drive it hard so you get the rings seated as quickly as possible. Run it hard, and rev it up. And then when coasting down a hill, use a lower gear to "engine brake" it. This will put pressure on both sides of the rings to help them seat.

If you let it sit idling, and then lug it around and baby it, the cylinder walls will glaze up, and the rings might never get seated, and they will be leaking and smoking. The first few minutes drive is the most important time.

Run it hard and let it get heated up. Then go home and change the oil, and readjust the valves. Run it again after that. I have a 3 mile long hill behind my house, so its ideal for engine break in. I do 3-4 passes up and down, and then head home.

Brian
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[mcjweller]

Thanks for all the comments!

So, that all makes sense and I do get the process of seating the rings, which you can't do without putting the motor under load...

But specifically, what would be the advantage of doing a 2nd 20-minute cam break-in procedure as was suggested elsewhere? That's what I don't understand, but am interested to know.

[Brian_e]

[chrisflstf]

As far as break in goes, i would trust the cam manufacturers over an amateur engine builders advice any day.

There isnt any benefit to run it additionally, in an unloaded condition, thinking it helps the cam/lifters more. The ring seating is basically the next priority. Cant do that in the garage

[daveblank]

[Glenn]

Actually I was told 2 times by Joe Aragona, google his name, when i built my 1st engine a 1776 in the early 1980's. I've since do only 1 cam breakin using Brad Penn Breakin Oil, dump it, replace the filter and do a valve adjustment. I then fill with more breaking oil and suggest doing the same oil/filter/valve adjust at 200 miles. At which I suggest switching to Brad Penn 10W-30 and doing another at 500 miles.
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[mcjweller]

Thanks Glenn!

So, I did use Brad Penn (aka Penn Grade) 30 weight break in oil. And I do use Brad Penn 10W30 as my regular oil in my '69 Impala, so, well familiar with it. Good stuff. Around here though, both are a pain (but not impossible) to get ones hands on.

For this, I was going to go ahead and dump the break in oil (its had a few days, I'm sure its cool now!) and filter, and fill up with VR1 20W50. The reason for that was that it seems many recommend 20W50 for these, and VR1 is readily available (but only in 20W50) and flat-tappet friendly. I have read also (though never tried it yet) that VR1 is ok for breaking in the rings, i.e. it doesn't have the additives that tend to glaze freshly honed cylinders...so opinion out there says anyway. Maybe I will go read the huge thread on oils on here and research some more.

Here in Canada, VR1 is dino oil only, although I believe in the US there is a synthetic version also.

I should note, although I live in Canada, none of my cars run in cold weather. They are put away while its still 66 or so degrees outside, and don't come out again until May. They get put away with a fresh oil change and aren't run at all during storage. Has worked well over the past 30 years.

I thought of running the BP 10W30 but since it is a synthetic blend, not the best for ring seating (although did successfully seat rings with it on another build years ago). Your plan to run more break-in oil solves that. Although for me that means 3 weeks before I can dump the oil and change it to get more BP break-in oil.

At this point, next steps for me are to confirm timing (I set static timing at 7.5 BTDC just so it would run for break-in), run it long enough to warm it up and set and balance the dual carbs, then shut it down. I know, important not to run/idle too much until I can put load on it and set those rings. I get that.

After that basic tuning, I'll drop the oil and filter again, refill and wait until May when I can have the car assembled and break those rings in on the road. It will be set to fire up and go.

I won't ask the question what oil people prefer (always a can of worms!) And yes, there is a big topic on that already.

[Glenn]

On a new, aka tight, engine, you want to run the thinnest oil you can, not the thinnest you can get.

I use a 10W-30 and find I have plenty of oil pressure. If you run too thick, it makes the engine run hotter having to squeeze the oil through and your cooler can be in constant bypass due to the higher pressure.

I would only use a 20W-50 on older engines.
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[mcjweller]

Truthfully that's always been my logic. And also why I ran straight 30 weight break in oil as opposed to a higher viscosity. But the number of VW folks I have met over the years who swear by 20W50 has been uncanny and when I see strong common opinion, I tend to wonder if perhaps I'm not overlooking something.

Your logic seems reasonable to me. So, I will just wait until I can get more break-in oil (will be a few weeks now) and do my tuning then. Although I have the BP 10W30 here on my shelf, I don't want to risk it WRT ring seating.

At least I can "share" the oil I already run elsewhere and not have to stock two different types...

[Glenn]

[mcjweller]

lol nope.

It's a beetle/bus disty for 1971 and up. With points, not converted to electronic.

Bosch 113-905-205-T

[Teeroy]

FYI VR1 comes in 10-30 and straight 30 in conventional.
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[mcjweller]

Yes but not locally to me. 20W50 is the only flavour for VR1 from any of my local sources. I don't know if that is a Canada market thing or just how it is with my suppliers. I do know (for example) you cannot get the synthetic version here at all, according to Valvoline.

If I can run 10W30 full time and be fine, which normal engine building logic would support, I'd just stick to the Brad Penn since I already have it on hand for other things.

[Teeroy]

Your climate and fresh engine, stick with 10 30
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[mcjweller]

So on the same topic of talking about what to do next, today I went in and checked valve lash. Most are a little tighter than initial lashing, by tighter I mean the .006" feeler still slides through but it has more friction on it as it does so. I did remove the rocker shafts AFTER setting them (cranking for oil pressure) and even though they were re-torqued to the same spec this could have caused that change. Although I did do a quick check on a couple on each side after reinstalling the rockers and before break-in to ensure nothing substantially changed. Certainly if a cam were going bad, lash would increase, not decrease. So I take that as a positive sign. I went ahead and marked the pushrods with a sharpie also, so I can monitor for rotation next time I run it.

When I get more break in oil I'll dump the old, change the filter, fill it up and finalize the timing and carb balancing and then it will be ready to break those rings in, in the springtime.