Vanagon Rockers on a 40hp?

[Flipseat]

I pulled my 40hp engine today to replace the heads. The rocker inserts had pulled from the old ones, and I was sick of dealing with them. So I got a set of square boss heads (Thanks Jon!!) and rebuilt them. I go to put them on today and my old rockers won't fit over the shoulder on the rocker arm studs. Now, I've heard from more than one person that Vanagon rocker assemblies are "factory ratio rockers." Does anyone have a definitive answer? What years/engines work? I need to find rockers asap, and will send out an email to the local club list and ask, but want to see if I can run these before I do. I have a "big bore" 40hp, so may as well get a little more out of it if I can. Thanks in advance for any replies!
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[Flipseat]

In case anyone was interested.... watercooled vanagon rocker shaft assemblies do work on type 1 engines. They will not work on type 4 engines. The shafts and blocks are the same part number (looked it up in microfiche) as 65ish and up type1 engines. Engines with studs in the head for the rocker shafts to mount on. The earlier rocker shafts have smaller mounting holes as they used bolts to mount to the heads, and not studs. The vanagon rockers also have larger adjusters, 9mm I believe, and 14mm locknuts. They also have a 1.25:1 ratio. No real difference that I felt when I mounted them up to my 40hp, but I'm limited by the small stock intake/exhaust.
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[VWBobby]

As far as I know the only part of the assemblies you can use are the Rockers themselves...not the entire rocker assembly. I have seen Wasserboxer (WBX, is what is called, might help with your google searches) boxed as "Factory VW 1.25 ratio rockers" and sold at a local performance vw shop.

The 9mm adjusters from a Type 4 can be used, but not the 8mm 911 swivel head style adjusters like a lot of people run (but you can with 1700 Type 4 rockers)...in case thats what you were getting mixed up.

[VWBobby]

To solve the original problem.....have you tried using TIMESERT inserts into the head? The Timesert type inserts work MUCH better than the Heli-coil type ones. Its exactly like a Case Saver but comes in many sizes. Its hardened and looks like a threaded cap with threads on the ouside also, colored black from the hardening. You should be able to find these at any NAPA autoparts.

I forgot to mention, The Shop Talk Forums (www.shoptalkforums.com) is a much better place to ask this type of question. Those guys really know their stuff when it comes to engine work.

[Flipseat]

You can use the entire rocker assemblies. I did... they bolted up just fine. The part numbers for the shafts and the blocks are a beetle part number. The rocker arms themselves are the only difference. I wasn't getting anything mixed up, just stating that they have larger adjusters than the earlier rockers that I was using and saying they won't fit on a type 4 engine (the rocker assemblies that is).

As far as the heads go, the bad one was a factory rebuilt head, and the other was a nos head. The bad one had the "updated" inserts installed, I'm not sure what was wrong with them, but they pulled out. I know what timeserts, heli coil, etc is and I don't think I would have been able to find them at the times I needed them. I ran a bolt through the entire head pinching the rockers to the head as a fix to get me by. I was sick of the heads, so I pulled them and installed square boss heads. It also gave me a chance to do some other things that needed to be done to the engine.

But that PITA is done and over, I was just updating the post to tell my findings as when I asked, nobody else could answer.
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[VWBobby]

Cool, glad everything is working... Its amazing how VW went full circle with the "Type 5" as I call it... The Camshaft is Type 1, but the lifters are Type 4, weird... the Rod Bearings are Type 1, but the main bearings are almost Chevy with a Type 4 thrust bearing... Just a weird beast of an engine!

[Rocknrod]

Is the type 5 engine you speak of the water cooled? Or the vanagons type 4 boxer pancake...

Talk about a mouthfull...