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rockdog2877
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2008
Posts: 72
Location: Philly
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 Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:23 pm Post subject: Over torque of oil bolt. |
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So I believe I did the stupid deed of over torquing the oil drain plug. I found a copper ring and some metal shavings in the oil.
I know it is bad, but can I run the bus at all?
The only reason I am asking is because I just got it up and running. Can I do more damage by running the engine? |
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VDubTech
Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2002
Posts: 9156
Location: Syracuse, NY
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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Shall we all guess what year and engine this Bus has?
_________________
First Trip in the RustyBus:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=279077&highlight=
| borninabus wrote: |
| a measurement of your rod would be extremely useful. |
| notchboy wrote: |
| my dad wasnt a belittling cock when he tought me how to wrench on cars. |
| EverettB wrote: |
One photo = good for reference.
10 photos = douchebaggery |
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Jeff Geisen
Samba Chaplain
Joined: December 21, 2004
Posts: 1943
Location: N.W. Georgia
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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I would guess Type IV, sorry for his luck.
_________________
I Corinthians 4: 1 thru 5
‘63 ragtop - ‘68 single cab |
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rockdog2877
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2008
Posts: 72
Location: Philly
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| VDubTech wrote: |
| Shall we all guess what year and engine this Bus has? |
sorry for the lack of info.
77 engine. type 4. |
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rockdog2877
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2008
Posts: 72
Location: Philly
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Jeff Geisen wrote: |
| I would guess Type IV, sorry for his luck. |
I have worked so hard and to trip up at the end is just devastating to me.
I was hoping to at least dive it around the block.
I bought the bus with a type 1 engine in it (not knowing any better) well on the ride home when I bought it, I blew a rod. It took me a while to find an engine for it, and installed a 77 engine. (kept the F.I. also.) I just finally got it running this month and was ready to hit the road...
alas I think I have to hand in my air cooled dreams and move on,,,,,, |
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Randy in Maine
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2003
Posts: 34890
Location: The Beach
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry to be the bearer of bad news....
Here is where yours may be broken .....the bolt comes up from the bottom oil plate and breaks the aluminum boss that hold the oil pick up tube in there...the bolt that holds it can bee seen on the side of the engine, drivers side just above the pushrod tubes in sort of a little crater.....
The oil tube will soon fail to pick up oil and the engine will sieze.
You need a new case if that did indeed happen. |
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udidwht
Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2005
Posts: 3804
Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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You'll need a new case or you can have the current case repaired at the cost of doing a complete tear down  . Either way it's gonna cost. |
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rockdog2877
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2008
Posts: 72
Location: Philly
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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| udidwht wrote: |
| You'll need a new case or you can have the current case repaired at the cost of doing a complete tear down . Either way it's gonna cost. |
I don't understand, new case or repair-
how is it repaired with out a complete tear down?
Is there away to confirm that this is the problem? |
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VDubTech
Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2002
Posts: 9156
Location: Syracuse, NY
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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| rockdog2877 wrote: |
| udidwht wrote: |
| You'll need a new case or you can have the current case repaired at the cost of doing a complete tear down . Either way it's gonna cost. |
I don't understand, new case or repair-
how is it repaired with out a complete tear down?
Is there away to confirm that this is the problem? |
Re-read it. He didn't say anything about repairing it without a complete teardown. It can't be done.
Let's start from the beginning here. Did you overtighten the oil drain plug or the oil sump? The drain plug is the drain plug and the sump is the big round plate that when unbolted the screen comes out and you can clean it. Which did you overtighten?
_________________
First Trip in the RustyBus:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=279077&highlight=
| borninabus wrote: |
| a measurement of your rod would be extremely useful. |
| notchboy wrote: |
| my dad wasnt a belittling cock when he tought me how to wrench on cars. |
| EverettB wrote: |
One photo = good for reference.
10 photos = douchebaggery |
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udidwht
Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2005
Posts: 3804
Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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It appears he stated, "oil drain plug". Please confirm this OP. If so this can be repaired without engine tear down. The torque spec for the sump plate is 7-9ft/lb no more! If you do not have a torque wrench tighten it initially finger tight than use a socket wrench with your index finger, middle finger and thumb only on the center of the wrench and GENTLY snug it once it's finger tight. Also be sure you use the thicker gasket set for the sump plate in the proper order as well. Gasket>screen>gasket>sump plate. I also lightly coat the gaskets with Hylomar as well.
Last edited by udidwht on Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:47 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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VDubTech
Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2002
Posts: 9156
Location: Syracuse, NY
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| udidwht wrote: |
| It appears he stated, "oil drain plug". Please confirm this OP. |
I know what he said, I can read very well thank you.  I was asking for clarification because the fix of a stripped drain plug and the fix of an overtorqued sump plate are two entirely different things.
_________________
First Trip in the RustyBus:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=279077&highlight=
| borninabus wrote: |
| a measurement of your rod would be extremely useful. |
| notchboy wrote: |
| my dad wasnt a belittling cock when he tought me how to wrench on cars. |
| EverettB wrote: |
One photo = good for reference.
10 photos = douchebaggery |
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rockdog2877
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2008
Posts: 72
Location: Philly
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| VDubTech wrote: |
Let's start from the beginning here. Did you overtighten the oil drain plug or the oil sump? The drain plug is the drain plug and the sump is the big round plate that when unbolted the screen comes out and you can clean it. Which did you overtighten? |
I am sorry I ment the oil sump plate I belive, the one that holds the screen. |
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udidwht
Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2005
Posts: 3804
Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| VDubTech wrote: |
| udidwht wrote: |
| It appears he stated, "oil drain plug". Please confirm this OP. |
I know what he said, I can read very well thank you. I was asking for clarification because the fix of a stripped drain plug and the fix of an overtorqued sump plate are two entirely different things. |
I understood this as well, which is why I didn't quote you. It was mainly written for any newer posts. |
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VDubTech
Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2002
Posts: 9156
Location: Syracuse, NY
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| rockdog2877 wrote: |
| VDubTech wrote: |
Let's start from the beginning here. Did you overtighten the oil drain plug or the oil sump? The drain plug is the drain plug and the sump is the big round plate that when unbolted the screen comes out and you can clean it. Which did you overtighten? |
I am sorry I ment the oil sump plate I belive, the one that holds the screen. |
Sorry to say--bad news right there.....
_________________
First Trip in the RustyBus:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=279077&highlight=
| borninabus wrote: |
| a measurement of your rod would be extremely useful. |
| notchboy wrote: |
| my dad wasnt a belittling cock when he tought me how to wrench on cars. |
| EverettB wrote: |
One photo = good for reference.
10 photos = douchebaggery |
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rockdog2877
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2008
Posts: 72
Location: Philly
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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I understand the "bad news" part.
OK ruffly what would the cost of the repair be?
and the details of the non new case repair. |
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VDubTech
Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2002
Posts: 9156
Location: Syracuse, NY
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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The engine would have to be complete torn down and the broken part of the case welded. If it were me, I would just replace the case half....tearing down the engine is PITA enough without having to go through the added time and expense of having someone weld the broken case.
Don't give up on it. You've come this far with your Bus, don't let one stupid mistake seal its fate.
_________________
First Trip in the RustyBus:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=279077&highlight=
| borninabus wrote: |
| a measurement of your rod would be extremely useful. |
| notchboy wrote: |
| my dad wasnt a belittling cock when he tought me how to wrench on cars. |
| EverettB wrote: |
One photo = good for reference.
10 photos = douchebaggery |
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rockdog2877
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2008
Posts: 72
Location: Philly
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| VDubTech wrote: |
The engine would have to be complete torn down and the broken part of the case welded. If it were me, I would just replace the case half....tearing down the engine is PITA enough without having to go through the added time and expense of having someone weld the broken case.
Don't give up on it. You've come this far with your Bus, don't let one stupid mistake seal its fate. |
I am a little devastated to think about taking the engine apart right now.
I am just trying to get some numbers so I can decide to keep up the work or sell it at a loss. |
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ccpalmer
Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2006
Posts: 3851
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| rockdog2877 wrote: |
I am a little devastated to think about taking the engine apart right now.
I am just trying to get some numbers so I can decide to keep up the work or sell it at a loss. |
I understand your pain.. that's a tough one. Really tough. But stick with it - think of all the experience you'll have. And one heck of a story.
_________________
'71 Westy |
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dwill49965
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2005
Posts: 1405
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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| rockdog2877 wrote: |
I am a little devastated to think about taking the engine apart right now.
I am just trying to get some numbers so I can decide to keep up the work or sell it at a loss. |
NOT SO FAST, rockdog2877. Before slitting your wrists, read this thread and take heart.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2726729&highlight=#2726729
My engine had the same problem - unbeknownst to me for a few years. I don't know when exactly my bolt got cracked - I may have done it myself in the first 3 or 4 years that I owned the bus and before I became a Samba member and learned about the importance of the sump plate. Or, it may have already been like that when I got the bus. I ran the bus in this condition for at least 5 years, possibly more.
Before I removed the engine to fix an unrelated problem (exhaust studs - see the above linked thread), the engine ran fine, no oil pressure problems, no overheating problems, etc. Granted, I'm in Canada, not the Arizona desert, and I only used it summers for camping, not a daily driver.
I took much more flack for the condition of my camshaft. 
_________________
Darryl
--------------
'78 Westy, Boston Bob built 2.0 L, FI, MSD 6A |
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rockdog2877
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2008
Posts: 72
Location: Philly
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
[quote="dwill49965"]
| rockdog2877 wrote: |
I am a little devastated to think about taking the engine apart right now.
I am just trying to get some numbers so I can decide to keep up the work or sell it at a loss. |
NOT SO FAST, rockdog2877. Before slitting your wrists, read this thread and take heart.
My engine had the same problem - unbeknownst to me for a few years. I don't know when exactly my bolt got cracked - I may have done it myself in the first 3 or 4 years that I owned the bus and before I became a Samba member and learned about the importance of the sump plate. Or, it may have already been like that when I got the bus. I ran the bus in this condition for at least 5 years, possibly more.
Before I removed the engine to fix an unrelated problem (exhaust studs - see the above linked thread), the engine ran fine, no oil pressure problems, no overheating problems, etc. Granted, I'm in Canada, not the Arizona desert, and I only used it summers for camping, not a daily driver.
I took much more flack for the condition of my camshaft. |
/quote]
thanks for the helpfull post. Maybe I can take it for a few joy rides before I call it quits?
I guess there is a chance that the P.O. might not have been the type to clean the screen, I dunno. it was the first time I had cleaned the screen. I will still take the blame either way.
I do have a spare engine that came with the bus. It is missing the heads, but I don't know the condition of it.
I guess I can marry the two and start over. |
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