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oleflorida
Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2011
Posts: 67
Location: Boca Raton, FL
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 Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:21 pm Post subject: Shifter problem - please help evaluate my parts |
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So my 67 bus hasn't shifted correctly since I got it. I've changed the front bushing and lubed everything up, but the ball keeps popping out of the cup. I haven't been able to drive it much, but the little I have, I'm able to find gears but with a shifter that swings all over the place. I've done my searches and now I think it might be the rear coupler (the bolts aren't lined up straight). I believe the shifter is the OG longer later model one. One thing I notice is where the rear shift rod come out of the tube to the front coupler, it lays very low and might even touch the bottom of the tube. Is this correct? Also if the front bushing is new and in the "pin" guide properly, how can the cup be in the wrong location (presumably lower)? I could use some input on my shifter parts to help me narrow/fix my problem.
Here's the ball out of the cup:
Are there suppose to be two holes in the front shifter rod? :
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Darren
67 SO-42 |
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quartermilecamel
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Joined: April 16, 2008
Posts: 3929
Location: ohio
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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You might try getting the correct shifter for your bus if thats not a 67 shifter. Also, you dont show a lockout plate in your photos. Are you using one?
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quartermilecamel
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Joined: April 16, 2008
Posts: 3929
Location: ohio
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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Still staring at that underside pick. Either you dont have all 67 parts or that locating pin has been moved. Unless that shifter housing that holds the spring is so far gone, the shifter is popping through it.
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Clara 
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Joined: June 14, 2003
Posts: 12663
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cru62
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Joined: December 31, 2002
Posts: 4121
Location: Margaritaville.....24/7
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| Clara wrote: |
ah- ha! looks like the spring is broken. the fat end of the curl is rusted off |
I wouldn't get too excited about the spring. It just holds the shifter UP into the shift plate. Is your shifter cup (the one that fits over the shifter and bolts to the floor) worn out? Lack of lube will cause that to wear rapidly. It isn't apparent sometimes because it is double walled. If that AND the ball are worn it could be enough to let the end of the shifter pop-out of the rod.
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"My biggest worry is that when I die, my wife will sell all my parts for what I told her I paid for them"-Jon
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oleflorida
Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2011
Posts: 67
Location: Boca Raton, FL
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:46 am Post subject: |
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| quartermilecamel wrote: |
| You might try getting the correct shifter for your bus if thats not a 67 shifter. Also, you dont show a lockout plate in your photos. Are you using one? |
Here's the lockout plate:
| quartermilecamel wrote: |
| Still staring at that underside pick. Either you dont have all 67 parts or that locating pin has been moved. Unless that shifter housing that holds the spring is so far gone, the shifter is popping through it. |
And here's the locating pin (looks like it's where it's suppose to be):
| cru62 wrote: |
| I wouldn't get too excited about the spring. It just holds the shifter UP into the shift plate. Is your shifter cup (the one that fits over the shifter and bolts to the floor) worn out? Lack of lube will cause that to wear rapidly. It isn't apparent sometimes because it is double walled. If that AND the ball are worn it could be enough to let the end of the shifter pop-out of the rod. |
I don't have a picture of the the shifter cup right now but I do recall it showing some wear and maybe even having a crack in it. I see that BusBoys sells a complete shifter assembly for a 66-67 that includes the cup and spring. Anyone have any experiences with this part? Also, if I were to get some used parts, is the spring the same size for earlier and late splitties? Thanks everybody for the help!
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Darren
67 SO-42 |
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BarryL
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 15478
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Try buying a good used german shift housing off the classifieds and I'll bet your troubles go away. |
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oleflorida
Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2011
Posts: 67
Location: Boca Raton, FL
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I got a used housing and spring. It's obvious that my parts were shot:
new spring on the right
new housing on the left
After installing the new parts it still didn't work well. A little better but still would pop out and the shifter would be able to swing around loosely. I noticed as I was shifting that the housing would move a bit even though it was bolted as hard as I could get it. Looked like the floor itself would move a bit. So as I was unbolting the unit, I noticed one of the bolts was at an angle and it looks like the PO just spot welded a nut under the floor. Of course the nut came off and now I have no way of even putting the shifter back on 
Here's what I got going on now:
So what now? I've got no welding skills but a have couple of friends that might be able to help. Don't mind bringing it somewhere, just got some other engine kinks to fix. Ugh, 0 steps forward 4 steps back.
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Darren
67 SO-42 |
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DubStyle
SBS Hit Squad
Joined: July 26, 2003
Posts: 6249
Location: SBS headquarters: Missery
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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What about the bushing that guides the rod? I've seen that wear and the shifter not sit in the cup.
As far as welding skills... find a local VW guy with a welder and offer them some beer. That isn't that miuch work. Hell if I were near you I'd do it for FREE.
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Anthony
SBS #1
SBS #1 on FB
"The original & best lowered Split Bus website/club" |
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oleflorida
Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2011
Posts: 67
Location: Boca Raton, FL
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| DubStyle wrote: |
| What about the bushing that guides the rod? I've seen that wear and the shifter not sit in the cup. |
This is a 67. It doesn't have the bushing guide (pre 64 I think) but the bushing is inside the rod that fits on the guide pin. I already changed that. Anyone have a pic of the part that the shifter housing bolts to? Looking for an above and below shot, with or without the floor.
Thanks for all the efforts.
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Darren
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DubStyle
SBS Hit Squad
Joined: July 26, 2003
Posts: 6249
Location: SBS headquarters: Missery
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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Well according to WW yours has one, just further back.
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Anthony
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Derek Waycaster
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Joined: October 30, 2010
Posts: 104
Location: Wadmalaw Island, SC
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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Besides the above mentioned ideas, thoroughly check everything from front to back for wear/play. The shifter is limited in its travel ultimately by the shift shaft coming out of the nose cone, (provided everything else is tight) as it can only rotate so far to between 1&2 to 3&4. If the problem in fact is not your combination of parts up front, check the rest of the assembly to see what is allowing the shifter to go so far to one side or the other.
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vwserphguy
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Joined: April 30, 2009
Posts: 176
Location: Vail Valley
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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| oleflorida wrote: |
I noticed one of the bolts was at an angle and it looks like the PO just spot welded a nut under the floor. Of course the nut came off and now I have no way of even putting the shifter back on
Here's what I got going on now:
So what now? I've got no welding skills but a have couple of friends that might be able to help. Don't mind bringing it somewhere, just got some other engine kinks to fix. Ugh, 0 steps forward 4 steps back. |
I just went through a similar process of dissecting my entire shifting system on my 58. After going through everything, and lots of trial and error, I found that any play in the system would not allow all gears to function or better yet find them all. My rear coupler was diffective and had a quarter inch of movement. The movement you have up front at the floor could be suspect. Research how the '67 assembles, etc and minimize any unwanted movement (such as the bolt that broke off). Hope that helps. Keep at it a little at a time. When you get it, the reward is great!
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Eric&Barb
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Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 26300
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:19 am Post subject: Re: Shifter problem - please help evaluate my parts |
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How is the hole in the front of the shift rod that the bolt seats into??
There should be two rear shift rod bushings also.
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Clara
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003
Posts: 12663
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:26 am Post subject: |
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| oleflorida wrote: |
Of course the nut came off and now I have no way of even putting the shifter back on
Here's what I got going on now:
So what now? I've got no welding skills but a have couple of friends that might be able to help. Don't mind bringing it somewhere, just got some other engine kinks to fix. Ugh, 0 steps forward 4 steps back. |
Glad you got some bad pieces replaced.
The bottom of the floor looks like someone took a grinder and ground off some of the reinforcement.
The earlier (to ch 501 xxx) floors are not as reinforced there, and do tend to get cracks with lots of use. Then they flex. I think VW reinforced that area against cracking. Think that every time you shift gears the floor is acting as a fulcrum of a lever, the reinforcement is helpful. But some one cut a bunch of yours off with a grinder  so I can see how the floor could flex.
I'm just looking at that under floor pic and thinking WTF.
Then again, I have driven many miles in a 56 bus with flexy cracked floor, and decent shifting.
You need help installing the shifter... one person in the cab, another under the bus. Install the front nut & bolt first, and use BIG washers under the nuts.
or get it welded up right... but I'd try w/ big washers and help from a friend first. |
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oleflorida
Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2011
Posts: 67
Location: Boca Raton, FL
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:47 am Post subject: |
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| Clara wrote: |
| oleflorida wrote: |
Of course the nut came off and now I have no way of even putting the shifter back on
Here's what I got going on now:
So what now? I've got no welding skills but a have couple of friends that might be able to help. Don't mind bringing it somewhere, just got some other engine kinks to fix. Ugh, 0 steps forward 4 steps back. |
Glad you got some bad pieces replaced.
The bottom of the floor looks like someone took a grinder and ground off some of the reinforcement.
The earlier (to ch 501 xxx) floors are not as reinforced there, and do tend to get cracks with lots of use. Then they flex. I think VW reinforced that area against cracking. Think that every time you shift gears the floor is acting as a fulcrum of a lever, the reinforcement is helpful. But some one cut a bunch of yours off with a grinder so I can see how the floor could flex.
I'm just looking at that under floor pic and thinking WTF.
Then again, I have driven many miles in a 56 bus with flexy cracked floor, and decent shifting.
You need help installing the shifter... one person in the cab, another under the bus. Install the front nut & bolt first, and use BIG washers under the nuts.
or get it welded up right... but I'd try w/ big washers and help from a friend first. |
Thanks Clara. Good idea for a temporary solution. Now that you say it and I look at it you can see the grinder marks on the forward part under the e-brake 
What is this part even called? This is got to be the main part of the problem. The shifter housing was bolted to the floor, not to a support piece underneath. Is this going to require cutting the floor to even get access to that piece? Still would love a picture of the piece underneath. Might help me in a WTB ad. Ugh...
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Darren
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BarryL
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Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 15478
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| What Clara said will probably get you back in the saddle. Put fat fender washers under there under the nuts but you will need someone to put them on while you push down from the top. In your first post pic I saw what looked funky up there but then I saw the smooth metal and your smooth shift guide plate so I didn't figured I was seeing it wrong. That's definitly your problem why it's popping up. To do it all right you could try to get a donor floor area at the shifter area and have a body guy scarf in the piece but I bet you the washer system will work for a long time. |
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quartermilecamel
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Joined: April 16, 2008
Posts: 3929
Location: ohio
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| Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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Im not all to sure what that areas supposed to look lilke but couldnt you just readd the missing material metal? Like cut out the floor section, weld metal in then tack the floor back in?
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oleflorida
Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2011
Posts: 67
Location: Boca Raton, FL
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| Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| quartermilecamel wrote: |
| Im not all to sure what that areas supposed to look lilke but couldnt you just readd the missing material metal? Like cut out the floor section, weld metal in then tack the floor back in? |
I'm still looking for a picture of what the piece actually looks like. Anyone? If I just weld a piece of metal to close the cut gap, I need to know where to put the nut to bolt down the shifter housing. Does it go on top, underneath or inside that piece of metal?
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Darren
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Eric&Barb
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Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 26300
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:48 pm Post subject: Re: Shifter problem - please help evaluate my parts |
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| Eric&Barb wrote: |
How is the hole in the front of the shift rod that the bolt seats into??
There should be two rear shift rod bushings also. |
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Last edited by Eric&Barb on Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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