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Mscdman
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Joined: June 12, 2014
Posts: 562
Location: Denver, CO
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 Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:32 am Post subject: 1963 Ghia Convertible - Wiring Harness Options & Install |
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I've read a TON of Ghia wiring install posts on this forum but can't seem to find the answers to the specific questions I have.
1) On my particular year when I had the lower quarter panels off being repaired, I noticed my wire harness ran THROUGH the inside rocker tube - is this correct? How in the world could the harness ever be replaced that way??
2) What are the best harnesses for the price? I have seen KPRG wants 331 for a new harness. Also searched for a place call Wiring Works per the other posts but can't seem to find a URL for them..
3) Do I need a special/different harness since my 1963 was converted from a 6v to 12 v (and now it has an alternator) or will the standard 1963 wiring harness work? |
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VeloMikey
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Joined: March 19, 2012
Posts: 770
Location: So Cal
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| Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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To replace the harness, you attach a string, cable or wire at the rear and pull the harness out from the front until you have your attached cable, wire or string at the front. Now you have a pull wire going thru the old harnesses path. Attach the new harness to the pull wire at the front and pull it back thru from the rear of the car. Use dish soap or wire pulling lube from Home Depot and have somebody upfront guide and push the new harness as you pull.
I have used Wiring Works harnesses before and they are hands down the best.
They do not have a website. You can Google "Wiring Work San Pedro" and get there contact info. FYI, most of the harnesses for sale are from wiring works.
6v or 12v use the same harness.
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'58 Ghia 2387cc with a Berg / Folts 5 Speed
Ghia Build Thread https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768748 |
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rockerarm
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Joined: December 16, 2009
Posts: 3552
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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Being a VW tech and owner, I would suggest to fab your own harness. Why not. The car can be broke down to "sub harness'" and the harness that goes from the dash to the rear of the car would be the most difficult to complete, but workable. This would be sellable if the car isn't to be completely stock. My logic here is if one was to keep it 6v, then the wiring may want to be a different guage than a 12v car. This is also if one wants to run a cool H4 headlite system on your vintage ride.
Hope this helps, Bill. |
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Mscdman
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Joined: June 12, 2014
Posts: 562
Location: Denver, CO
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| Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Bill. I tink fabricating my own wire harness is above my talent level.
That being said you said something that I wanted to check on....you indicated I would want different wire gauge for a 12v system vs. 6v?
That was one of the questions I had - do I need to order a different harness since my car is converted to 12v? |
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rockerarm
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Joined: December 16, 2009
Posts: 3552
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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Well, thanks for replying to my opinion. It is a fact that the 6v cars had larger gage wiring than our 12v counterparts. As a fleet gov't employee I attended the GM training center here in Los Angeles and was told that the manufacturers were considering 24v systems which would require even small wire!! If you research the topic a particular 6v bulb, headlight, brake lamp, turn signal, will require a certain wattage, thus a certain gage wire for a certain length. I've been told that our older 6v air-cooled cars wiring was over designed but you do the homework and decide. Using ohms law with given info as voltage and bulb wattage will give you the amperage. For a given length of wire with this amperge will suggest the wire gage. A funny topic I've heard is that VW rocked and that the early Porsche's wiring was sub-standard.
If you desire to be as close to oem as possible locating wire with the stripes or tracers may require some work but I've heard it is available.
I will admit I haven't looked at the replacement harnesses but if the headlite wires are not 12ga then I'm not interested. |
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WooleyNelson
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Joined: July 13, 2012
Posts: 191
Location: Kokomo Indiana
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:11 am Post subject: |
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just go ahead and get the 6V harness for your year car.
all the wires will be heavier than absolutely necessary, but that would allow you to run the H4 headlights as noted previously, if you want.
there is no real disadvantage to using a 6V harness in a 12V system. |
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kiwighia68
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Joined: October 20, 2013
Posts: 2932
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| WooleyNelson wrote: |
| ... there is no real disadvantage to using a 6V harness in a 12V system. |
I've read somewhere on the Samba that the reason is that the current is carried on the surface of the wire. Thicker wire means greater surface means more efficient transfer of the current.
But the experts (Altema?) will be able to confirm or dispute this. Ask your local auto-electrician.
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Festina lente - hasten slowly
1968 Ghia named Emiko
Resto completed Dec 2015 |
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kingkarmann
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Joined: November 05, 2003
Posts: 4491
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:04 pm Post subject: Re: 1963 Ghia Convertible - Wiring Harness Options & Ins |
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| Mscdman wrote: |
I've read a TON of Ghia wiring install posts on this forum but can't seem to find the answers to the specific questions I have.
1) On my particular year when I had the lower quarter panels off being repaired, I noticed my wire harness ran THROUGH the inside rocker tube - is this correct? How in the world could the harness ever be replaced that way?? |
Early Ghia's perhaps as late as your 63 may have ran the main harness through a tube in the rocker channel. The harness on later Ghia's were sandwiched between the rocker and the threshold plate
Here's a cutaway of an early rocker,
You may have to fish a pull string to pull a new harness through that tube.
Not sure what year the harness run changed. Maybe someone can enlighten us  |
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Mscdman
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Joined: June 12, 2014
Posts: 562
Location: Denver, CO
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| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:46 am Post subject: |
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| That's exactly what it looks like in my 63. |
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sputnick60
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Joined: July 22, 2007
Posts: 4110
Location: In Molinya Orbit
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:46 am Post subject: Re: 1963 Ghia Convertible - Wiring Harness Options & Ins |
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| kingkarmann wrote: |
| Not sure what year the harness run changed. Maybe someone can enlighten us |
Sure can, 1966 is the first model year where the rear loom is no longer run in the rocker tube but in the left side passenger under the carpet and the threshold plate.
| kiwighia68 wrote: |
I've read somewhere on the Samba that the reason is that the current is carried on the surface of the wire. Thicker wire means greater surface means more efficient transfer of the current.
But the experts (Altema?) will be able to confirm or dispute this. Ask your local auto-electrician. |
This phenomena does exist and is called "skin effect" but only applies to high frequency AC. The Ghia is mostly DC or switched DC. Switched DC can have a high frequency component depending on how frequently it is switched which is mainly around the ignition circuit and in the generator/alternator.
In the DC situation thicker wire means more cross sectional area which gives lower resistance which makes less heat in the wires per Amp of current.
Nicholas
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Mscdman
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Joined: June 12, 2014
Posts: 562
Location: Denver, CO
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:19 pm Post subject: Re: 1963 Ghia Convertible - Wiring Harness Options & Ins |
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| Quote: |
Early Ghia's perhaps as late as your 63 may have ran the main harness through a tube in the rocker channel. The harness on later Ghia's were sandwiched between the rocker and the threshold plate |
Silly question but does the wiring harness run through both the passenger and drivers side channels? |
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sputnick60
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Joined: July 22, 2007
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:16 am Post subject: Re: 1963 Ghia Convertible - Wiring Harness Options & Ins |
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| Mscdman wrote: |
| Silly question but does the wiring harness run through both the passenger and drivers side channels? |
Not a silly question.
Anything before August 66 its inside the RHS channel (regardless of RHD or LHD vehicle) not in the passenger compartment
Anything after August 66 its under the LHS sill plate/ carpet (regardless of RHD or LHD) inside the passenger compartment.
There. I think I got that right.
Was that a silly answer?
Nicholas
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'66 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet...
'65 Porsche 356C Coupe...
2005 Mecedes Benz C180 Kompressor Estate
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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c21darrel
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Mscdman
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Location: Denver, CO
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Wait...so then there are internal pipes for the harness going through the channel on BOTH sides? |
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c21darrel
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