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67rustavenger
Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015
Posts: 11079
Location: Oregon
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 Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2023 8:07 am Post subject: Re: Blown Engine (1500cc Air Cooled) - Advice Needed |
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| Dusty1 wrote: |
| Glenn wrote: |
| Dusty1 wrote: |
| The typical hole is where #3 exited under the fan shroud. |
You mean like this? |
There it is!
That hole behind the fuel pump in the OP's engine may have been a stray chunk the crank smacked into the case. Your under the fan shroud hole is typical.
I've had success reviving wet stuck engines typical of '71 and later Bugs left outside without the air cleaner. Stuck motors can be a gamble, though. Odds are about 50 / 50 these days the motor is stuck because the #3 connecting rod is jammed up against the case.
Wasn't it Muir who said fifty years ago we should hoard damaged cases in case good ones become NLA? I'd like to bandsaw a slab out of a donor and see if I can't repair the typical exit wound.
Even if the case is warped my buddy has a massive machine for decking diesel blocks and heads. Shouldn't be too difficult to whack a few thou off the mating surfaces to clean it up.
Who is that Texas engine builder who frequently has featured ads in the Samba classified?
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Randy's, Comfort, Tx.?
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Dusty1
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2004
Posts: 2096
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2023 9:26 am Post subject: Re: Blown Engine (1500cc Air Cooled) - Advice Needed |
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| 67rustavenger wrote: |
| Randy's, Comfort, Tx.? |
Yeah, that's the guy.
He's "way down" near San Antonio. Still, I made it halfway to Dallas (north of Austin) in an hour after a show at Sam's Burger Joint in San Antonio.
If the 35E won't put a hole in your motor nothing will.  Might want to buy a tachometer to go with the new motor.
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nextgen
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 6137
Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2023 9:42 am Post subject: Re: Blown Engine (1500cc Air Cooled) - Advice Needed |
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Actually now when I think back, my 1600 blew in the same area. The reason being the Generator light went and both sides for the road had so much pilled up snow that I could not pull over. Had to wait till I could get to the next exit. Half way thru the exit same symptoms, rough engine, a bang, smoke and oil pouring out onto the roadway.
So all what I said about Bug vs Bus, can be a cause but, mine was just a blown fan belt, in will below freezing temps. Not long after the Gen Light went on.
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foxacoon
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2023
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 8:48 am Post subject: Re: Blown Engine (1500cc Air Cooled) - Advice Needed |
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Here are some pictures and video.
Link
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Dusty1
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2004
Posts: 2096
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 9:14 am Post subject: Re: Blown Engine (1500cc Air Cooled) - Advice Needed |
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| foxacoon wrote: |
| Here are some pictures and video. |
O.k..
Considering what you likely paid for that Brazilian Bus we shouldn't be able to find fault with your motor. But...
It shouldn't be oily. It is.
All of the lower engine tin should be in place. It isn't.
There should be OEM pushrod tubes available for chump change in Brazil. Your motor has a set of mix 'n' match pushrod tubes.
And...
Bent and broken fins on the heads indicate it was assembled out of floor sweepings. Brazil was the last place that manufactured new OEM heads.
Next, the 35E. Last time I drove though there I near got run over by Texas sized trucks and SUVs in a big hurry to get where they were going. I don't know where they're all going. They're going to be way early wailing up and down the 35E between midnight and daybreak.
Maybe they're rushing to West for a fresh batch of kolaches. 
It's 80 miles from San Antonio to Austin. Google Maps says it should take me an hour and twenty minutes. I made it in under an hour with the Texas plates on numerous duallies and Texas sized SUVs centered in my rear view mirror, pushing. Or maybe they were drafting?
Point is if you drive an old Bus like that you're goin' to blow your new motor right quick.
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FarmerBill 
Samba Member
Joined: July 25, 2017
Posts: 865
Location: New England
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 11:03 am Post subject: Re: Blown Engine (1500cc Air Cooled) - Advice Needed |
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| Why do all the Brazilian busses have that clear vinyl tubing (with no hose clamps) for fuel line? That thrown rod may have saved you from a fire. |
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PatJr
Samba Member
Joined: August 09, 2010
Posts: 253
Location: earth
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 11:17 am Post subject: Re: Blown Engine (1500cc Air Cooled) - Advice Needed |
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no heat risers on exhaust?
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Big Bull Shooter
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2018
Posts: 528
Location: Canadian Rockies
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 1:43 pm Post subject: Re: Blown Engine (1500cc Air Cooled) - Advice Needed |
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| PatJr wrote: |
| no heat risers on exhaust? |
No thermostat, either.
That engine is a dog's breakfast of parts.
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Feb. 11, 2021
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May 16, 2023 |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 14752
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: Blown Engine (1500cc Air Cooled) - Advice Needed |
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Yes, lots of red flags on the outside of this engine, I would expect the inside to have a few too especially as it didn't last very long. If it were my Bus I would just be happy to have a good rust free body, the mechanicals are the easy part to fix.
Or is it... ?
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 33075
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 4:01 pm Post subject: Re: Blown Engine (1500cc Air Cooled) - Advice Needed |
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| FarmerBill wrote: |
| Why do all the Brazilian busses have that clear vinyl tubing (with no hose clamps) for fuel line? That thrown rod may have saved you from a fire. |
That plastic tubing is not gasoline-resistant and will melt/catch on fire readily !!!
No tins underneath, not good.
Generator clocked incorrectly.
No loop or shepherd's crook in vacuum advance tubing.
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foxacoon
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2023
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 4:05 pm Post subject: Re: Blown Engine (1500cc Air Cooled) - Advice Needed |
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| oprn wrote: |
Yes, lots of red flags on the outside of this engine, I would expect the inside to have a few too especially as it didn't last very long. If it were my Bus I would just be happy to have a good rust free body, the mechanicals are the easy part to fix.
Or is it... ? |
I haven't been able to identify any rust, and I was planning on upgrading the engine at some point, but not this soon. I wanted to enjoy the bus for a little while before taking on a new engine swap.
That being said, I'm being forced into it about 6 months earlier than I had hoped.
I'm tired of trusting people and getting ripped off... which I feel like this guy/company did.
Another thing that really bothers me is that I put my family in the bus multiple times for dinner outings and neighborhood adventures (2.5 year old and 6 month old) - which was so unsafe.
And now, I have to spend a ton of money and time researching who can help me get this bus in a good place so we can enjoy it as a family... |
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Dusty1
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2004
Posts: 2096
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:38 pm Post subject: Re: Blown Engine (1500cc Air Cooled) - Advice Needed |
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Leading off with...
| foxacoon wrote: |
| Another thing that really bothers me is that I put my family in the bus multiple times for dinner outings and neighborhood adventures (2.5 year old and 6 month old) - which was so unsafe. |
I have literally lived in Volkswagens for my entire life. I rode around in the luggage well behind the back seat in a Bug when I was 2.5 years old. Wished the heater was better after walking miles in the snow when I was six.
Oh. Just re- read it. Six months.
I was nearly born in a Bug. We made it to the hospital in a Bug. Apparently it was touch and go.
Had a hundred or so Bugs and a couple dozen Busses over the years. Crashed a few of them. For example the Bug I grew up in was "exterminated" by an inebriated exterminator when I was still a kid.
You can't make this shit up!
Here I am.
I have no reservations about driving a 50 year old VW. I might even drive a 50- plus year old VW without seat belts. They didn't have 'em when I was little.
| foxacoon wrote: |
That being said, I'm being forced into it about 6 months earlier than I had hoped.
I'm tired of trusting people and getting ripped off... which I feel like this guy/company did. |
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We feel indignant as citizens of The First World when we perceive we have been wronged by citizens of The Second World or The Third World.
The primary use of an old Volkswagen is to build character. If you were a little short on character your vintage VW will help you out. That's why you bought it, isn't it?
| foxacoon wrote: |
| And now, I have to spend a ton of money and time researching who can help me get this bus in a good place so we can enjoy it as a family... |
No, you don't. We are all Brothers (and Sisters) From Another Mother. That's really why you bought a Volkswagen, isn't it?
I have literally pulled the good running engine out of my daily driver and passed it on to "a brother in need". Hilariously the next engine turned out to be a turd but I would do it all over again.
Gotta have what the Brits term "A GSoH". That means "A Good Sense of Humor".
Unless you spend an obscene amount of money and get lucky anyway vintage vehicles are all works in progress. That's not to say new vehicles are any better. As I've mentioned (in other threads) I have a thick stack of recall notices for our Toyotas. More complicated technology almost always equates to more complicated and expensive repairs.
Stick a solid motor in that Bus and pass it on to your oldest when they're ready. Your biggest challenge should be having two cool old VWs when your youngest comes of age.
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fl59bug
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2005
Posts: 2072
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 6:43 pm Post subject: Re: Blown Engine (1500cc Air Cooled) - Advice Needed |
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I am probably wrong, but I seem to see other Brazil 21 window busses for sale with the same curtain arrangement as your bus. I wonder if someone has a mass production selling operation? It makes me leery about buying one of these.
Again I'm probably wrong and speculating into the weeds here
At any rate, your bus is a beauty, and you'll come out good in the end. Just get a good used late model dual relief case long block, change the oil, and adjust the valves. Get oil pressure, oil temp and cylinder head temp gauges and drive the heck out of that thing. Open that giant sunroof that many of us drool over!
Ted |
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foxacoon
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2023
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2023 7:46 pm Post subject: Re: Blown Engine (1500cc Air Cooled) - Advice Needed |
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| fl59bug wrote: |
I am probably wrong, but I seem to see other Brazil 21 window busses for sale with the same curtain arrangement as your bus. I wonder if someone has a mass production selling operation? It makes me leery about buying one of these.
Again I'm probably wrong and speculating into the weeds here
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Hi Ted,
I don't think you're over speculating and I believe you're correct. The person I purchased my bus from was very responsive up until I shared the news of my blown motor. Since then - nothing. He's completely ghosted on me. He's got my money and probably has other buyers lined up that will eventually make the same mistake that I made.
If you look at this vendor's website, instagram page, and youtube channel, you'll see that many of their builds look identical, just variances in color scheme.
I am going to get this bus running and follow your advice. It will cost a pretty penny, but I will eventually get there and share my journey along the way.
My current daily driver is a 1978 Land Rover Series 3 and I have some fun stories about that. 13 years later, it's been the best vehicle I've owned out of the 30-ish vehicles in my day.
Cheers,
Fox |
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Dusty1
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2004
Posts: 2096
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2023 3:50 am Post subject: Re: Blown Engine (1500cc Air Cooled) - Advice Needed |
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| foxacoon wrote: |
| My current daily driver is a 1978 Land Rover Series 3 and I have some fun stories about that. 13 years later, it's been the best vehicle I've owned out of the 30-ish vehicles in my day. |
Oh, brother.
No, literally. My brother went through every four wheel drive vehicle on Earth during his Second International Gentleman of Leisure phase. Didn't quite get to the two kids and the Irish setter part until his second marriage.
Bro put his Series Rover on its roof shortly after he bought it. He was carrying a bale of hay in the passenger seat. Bale shifted. He reached over, pulled on the bale with one hand and the steering wheel with the other. Over she went.
Being as we're DIY guys that incident initiated a full restoration including replacing the crappy original frame.
Bro's several Land Cruisers were much better than the Series Rover. He had a couple '70s FJ40s, an FJ45 that helped build the Aswan Dam and an FJ65.
| foxacoon wrote: |
| I don't think you're over speculating and I believe you're correct. The person I purchased my bus from was very responsive up until I shared the news of my blown motor. Since then - nothing. He's completely ghosted on me. He's got my money and probably has other buyers lined up that will eventually make the same mistake that I made. |
Cool! We can speculate or we can do the math.
Looking at the Samba classifieds there are really only two vendors in the Brazilian Bus category. Must be you got yours from one or the other. Maybe not. What matters is a restored Brazilian 23 window starts at about $20k, maybe $25k by the time it's in your driveway.
A German Deluxe starts at around $20k for a project with nice restored 23 windows sometimes fetching over $100k. Clearly you did the math. $20k- $25k is a whole lot less than $100k.
Roughly correct so far?
What was your mistake?
So:
We drive down to Randy's, drop around $5k because he ain't cheap but you see where "cheap" gets you. I prefer a 1776 with a mild cam and dual carbs. I have my own "Secret Recipe", I'm sure Randy does, too. I'd drive back with my shiny Randy's motor in the back of my Land Rover. Maybe make a day of it. Take Texas 281 back so I don't get run over on the I-35. That Land Rover is one of the few vehicles slower than an old 23 window.
If we got back to your place with any daylight left... you would be shocked how quickly we can swap a VW motor.
We used to do it in a few minutes at VW shows just for fun.
| foxacoon wrote: |
| If you look at this vendor's website, instagram page, and youtube channel, you'll see that many of their builds look identical, just variances in color scheme. |
I have seven Vespa scooters in my living room, all unrestored. Best of the lot is an early '60s VBB with 300 original miles. It's a little scruffy but it's all original down to its original paint and even its original 1960s license plate still attached. It's the only plate that has ever been on that scooter.
Point is there is a cottage industry "restoring" vintage Vespas in Viet Nam as well as India, Indonesia and probably a few others places. Point is the Viet Nam Vespas are "restored" on the super cheap and the super quick mostly for profit. They're almost universally horrible under the shiny paint that's over inch thick Bondo.
By comparison the Brazilian busses are nicely done. Except for the motors of course. They're still tens of thousands of dollars cheaper than German busses restored in the U.S.
| foxacoon wrote: |
| I am going to get this bus running and follow your advice. It will cost a pretty penny, but I will eventually get there and share my journey along the way |
Oh, brother.
IMO if you're resigned to getting screwed you increase the probability getting screwed.
It doesn't have to cost a bundle.
Literally hundreds of thousands of us have built our own motors over the years. If you want to slow play it you should still be able to assemble a stock- ish engine with your own two hands using mostly new OEM parts. It's even better if you have a VW person help you out in actual reality. If you really, really want to slow play it you could wait half a dozen years and get your kids involved. Whatever. I wouldn't count on OEM parts availability in half a dozen years.
Or:
Drive th' 'ol Rover down to Randy's. Write a check. This whole affair can be in the rearview PDQ. 
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 14752
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2023 5:23 am Post subject: Re: Blown Engine (1500cc Air Cooled) - Advice Needed |
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| Dusty1 wrote: |
If we got back to your place with any daylight left... you would be shocked how quickly we can swap a VW motor.
We used to do it in a few minutes at VW shows just for fun. |
It was down to about 2.5 minutes as I recall, 2 guys, a floor jack and jack stands. That was from running to out and 30 feet away was it? Then back in and running again. Beetle of course, a Bus would take a bit longer. Dad had it down to 20 minutes doing it on his own on his '69 Bay Window.
As for the safety concern. I don't understand that at all. In my view if we were really anal about safety then we would not be driving these 50 year old cars. If I may say so without offending the OP here it was safer parked in the ditch than on the road driving in today's traffic and... it's not like you would ever freeze to death in your part of the country waiting for help judging by the pictures. That is the real safety concern in my part of the world at this time of the year! Our neighbor's daughter got stuck in a snow drift on her way home from a party in the wee hours of the morning. Someone just happened by and picked her up and took her to the hospital. She spent 3 months in there trying to save her frozen hands and feet, several amputations... The general consensus was that another few minutes and she would have been dead.
Yes find or build another engine, get right back on the horse that bucked you off. That was an unfortunate set back but you have a chance now to correct a few things that are wrong and make it much more dependable. In that vain, treat it to a full flow filter, the rest of the missing engine tins and flaps, a remote cooler is a worthwhile addition to a Bus too if you are trying to keep up with the traffic. Scrap the heavy oil mentality especially on a new engine, they run cooler on regular oil.
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Dusty1
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2004
Posts: 2096
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2023 6:29 am Post subject: Re: Blown Engine (1500cc Air Cooled) - Advice Needed |
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| oprn wrote: |
| Dusty1 wrote: |
If we got back to your place with any daylight left... you would be shocked how quickly we can swap a VW motor.
We used to do it in a few minutes at VW shows just for fun. |
It was down to about 2.5 minutes as I recall, 2 guys, a floor jack and jack stands. That was from running to out and 30 feet away was it? Then back in and running again. Beetle of course, a Bus would take a bit longer. Dad had it down to 20 minutes doing it on his own on his '69 Bay Window. |
I have literally swapped VW motors on the side of the road.
Should be quicker in a Bus. The rear tin is removable. Should be almost as quick as a Baja.
No rear tin in the way, don't have to drag it 30 feet out and back... I reckon we could do it in two minutes with a beverage in one hand. 
I built up my "spare" motor with an early 40 horse shroud and "J" tubes. No heater hoses to mess with. Less weight without the heater boxes.
If I get another Bus I'm going to carry a spare long block with me.
| oprn wrote: |
| As for the safety concern. I don't understand that at all. In my view if we were really anal about safety then we would not be driving these 50 year old cars. If I may say so without offending the OP here it was safer parked in the ditch than on the road driving in today's traffic and... it's not like you would ever freeze to death in your part of the country waiting for help judging by the pictures. That is the real safety concern in my part of the world at this time of the year! Our neighbor's daughter got stuck in a snow drift on her way home from a party in the wee hours of the morning. Someone just happened by and picked her up and took her to the hospital. She spent 3 months in there trying to save her frozen hands and feet, several amputations... The general consensus was that another few minutes and she would have been dead. |
That's horrible.
I was comin' from Fran the Famous Rock Star's Party Like a Rock Star New Year's party around ten years ago. No, really! He's a famous rock star. He has three cribs, one way up in New England, another one (nominally) in Boston and yet another one near the northern Gulf Coast of Florida. Fran's big hideaway is way back in the woods off a web of dirt roads. Great place for your GPS to get you lost and stuck! Anyway, I was a couple miles down the road from Fran's place after the party. There was a Jeep off the road in the middle of the triangular intersection of three roads. They had left another party, overcooked the corner and went off the road. Their Grand Cherokee hadn't gone over, it just tipped enough the fuel pump wouldn't pick up any fuel. No fuel, no heat. The lady was walkin' around in the middle of the dirt road in her high heels and itty- bitty black party dress.
In a whole lotta snow and near zero temperatures.
Of course I stopped.
I got a heater in my truck. I had most of a tank of gas.
They had come from Hell and Gone on the other side of the mountain. So we headed over the mountain towards Hell and Gone. We ended up in the ditch just before sunup. Got a heater in my truck, right? Didn't have to wait long. The plow pulled us out. Couldn't get by on the cowpath we were on with us in the way.
The sun was fully up by the time I dropped them off at their place.
Ran into 'em in a local convenience store a few days later. They asked,
"Do you know where our Jeep is?"
And they all lived happily ever after
After I drove them and their gas can ten miles back to their Jeep.
| oprn wrote: |
| Yes find or build another engine, get right back on the horse that bucked you off. That was an unfortunate set back but you have a chance now to correct a few things that are wrong and make it much more dependable. In that vain, treat it to a full flow filter, the rest of the missing engine tins and flaps, a remote cooler is a worthwhile addition to a Bus too if you are trying to keep up with the traffic. Scrap the heavy oil mentality especially on a new engine, they run cooler on regular oil. |
Yup.
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94touring
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2020
Posts: 493
Location: Tulsa - OK
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2023 8:37 am Post subject: Re: Blown Engine (1500cc Air Cooled) - Advice Needed |
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| If your Brazilian is anything like mine, the body is solid but there will be some mechanical bodgery. Obviously just looking at your engine pics. The paint job on mine wasn't the hottest either but gave me a nice canvas to respray since I do my own paint jobs. As I said earlier this is a great opportunity to go bigger. I cruised 13k+ miles doing 4 or 5 cross country drives with the 2110 I tossed in. Had I done it over I would have gone with the TW 92s and better flowing heads from the start, and more carefully gone over details with the engine builder. When I pulled it out to redo some things I found the deck height to be huge and compression specs were lower than quoted. Live and learn. I needed an external cooler with mine and also welded in place my own custom flaps to direct air properly over the heads. There's a guy who sells fixed position flaps now that I could have just bought and bolted in. You may only need to stick with a 1776-1835cc or so depending what your goals are. I pull gear up mountains and cruise at 70, and it runs cool! Oil and head temp gauge verified. |
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foxacoon
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2023
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:22 pm Post subject: Re: Blown Engine (1500cc Air Cooled) - Advice Needed |
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The person I purchased this bus from was Gustavo Schmidt with Buses N Bugs (https://vwbusesnbugs.com/). He advertises on this site and should be banned to help prevent others from making the same mistake. Preserving the community and helping people is what it's all about and Gustavo counters those efforts.
He's refusing to respond and isn't willing to make things right. Buyers beware of this total scam. |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 14752
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:57 pm Post subject: Re: Blown Engine (1500cc Air Cooled) - Advice Needed |
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Dad's had a bumper and a trailer hitch that went forward and tied into the body ahead of the front transaxle mount. That was 6 bolts plus the 4 bolts and 2 screws for the rear pan. Then there was the body mounted full flow oil filter and the rear pan mounted oil cooler that had to come off.
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