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Mauidude
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2022
Posts: 40
Location: Haiku Hawaii
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 Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2023 9:28 pm Post subject: My ‘63 Single cab is too low |
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Ok everyone here’s the deal, I bought this cool SC but now that I drive it on less than ideal roads I’ve decided that it needs to come up a few inches, thing is I’m kinda a newbie to air cooled suspension mods, it’s pretty much slammed, PO says ‘71 bay front beam but it doesn’t look like stock end plates and it is adjustable. Do I only have the adjuster range or can the arms be re indexed like the rear? The rear also has adjustable spring plates and I can figure it out.
My plan is go to a bigger front tire, 175/65 15 from a 145/ 60 15 as well as raise the adjusters, which requires a longer shock also. Any advice, comments are welcome. Thanks, Karl |
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tpinthepack
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2004
Posts: 844
Location: clearwater,florida
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:06 am Post subject: Re: My ‘63 Single cab is too low |
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Your beam is custom built, and it has Ball Joint arms with adjusters in the center. the springs are held by the center, and you can loosen the nut, jack up a notch or two and tighten them down. It looks very well built, and narrower lets the tires sit nicely in the wheel well. I think you can work with what you have. Very nice truck I might add.
Good luck.
Tony
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TP in the Pack (I am a cyclist)
1968 Manx N.O.S. w/ Barrett Chassis
1960 Single Cab 1914 w/ 40 DLRA's
1990 Vanagon DOKA
1972 Super Beetle
1979 Super Beetle Convertible
2011 Porsche Cayenne |
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Ceckert64
Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2015
Posts: 2088
Location: Houghton, MI for now
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Mauidude
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2022
Posts: 40
Location: Haiku Hawaii
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 11:20 am Post subject: Re: My ‘63 Single cab is too low |
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| Thanks guys, I know I can make the adjustment at the center but I didn’t know that the ball joints were upside down, Ceckert64. Can the ball joint be mounted from either side of the arms or do the arms need to be moved to the other side?( flipped). I’ll try the adjuster first once I get tires and see if that’s enough. |
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tpinthepack
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2004
Posts: 844
Location: clearwater,florida
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 4:41 am Post subject: Re: My ‘63 Single cab is too low |
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| Ceckert64 wrote: |
| Those ball joints are upside down, if you flipped them the right way it should lift it up a bit |
Wow, good catch and great call. I did not see that, but you are right, I would put it back the correct way, I think it is safer that way also.
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TP in the Pack (I am a cyclist)
1968 Manx N.O.S. w/ Barrett Chassis
1960 Single Cab 1914 w/ 40 DLRA's
1990 Vanagon DOKA
1972 Super Beetle
1979 Super Beetle Convertible
2011 Porsche Cayenne |
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don.ville 
Samba YardMan
Joined: February 07, 2008
Posts: 2887
Location: West Palm Beach, FL
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 5:40 pm Post subject: Re: My ‘63 Single cab is too low |
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| tpinthepack wrote: |
| Ceckert64 wrote: |
| Those ball joints are upside down, if you flipped them the right way it should lift it up a bit |
Wow, good catch and great call. I did not see that, but you are right, I would put it back the correct way, I think it is safer that way also. |
If the flipped ball joints were done to lower the bus, wouldn't the receiving holes have been modified with a different taper for the flipped ball joints?
Then you could
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67 Standard 11 window How I Keep My Bus Alive
04 Jetta TDI Page (SOLD)
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29 Ford Model A Rat Rod (SOLD)
2015 Audi A8L TDI Quattro
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DubStyle
SBS Hit Squad
Joined: July 26, 2003
Posts: 6250
Location: SBS headquarters: Missery
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 5:18 am Post subject: Re: My ‘63 Single cab is too low |
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Someone went through a lot of trouble to get it that far down. What is "too low?" Are you scraping the steering box? If that is the case and it isn't raised, you could always do a steering box raise to gain a couple of inches of clearance there.
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Anthony
SBS #1
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Clara
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003
Posts: 12551
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 8:07 am Post subject: Re: My ‘63 Single cab is too low |
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| don.ville wrote: |
| tpinthepack wrote: |
| Ceckert64 wrote: |
| Those ball joints are upside down, if you flipped them the right way it should lift it up a bit |
Wow, good catch and great call. I did not see that, but you are right, I would put it back the correct way, I think it is safer that way also. |
If the flipped ball joints were done to lower the bus, wouldn't the receiving holes have been modified with a different taper for the flipped ball joints?
Then you could |
Yup, might not work to un flip them.
Adjustable beams can be adjusted, I suspect. Try adjusting it up a notch. That might be easier.
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banana split
Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2002
Posts: 1119
Location: Beautiful British Columbia Canada
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 9:22 am Post subject: Re: My ‘63 Single cab is too low |
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I have nothing to add but what a great looking single cab! If it were mine I'd keep it as-is. Nice stance.
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1951 Crotch Cooler 11G Split Ragtop
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Mauidude
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2022
Posts: 40
Location: Haiku Hawaii
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 10:12 am Post subject: Re: My ‘63 Single cab is too low |
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Thanks, the front bumper has taken a few hits , smashed pretty bad during shipping, and I’ve hit it going into a gas station. There is no steeingrbox to raise since it has the CE rack setup. Oh and the muffler also drags a little. It’s coming up😎
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Busstom
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014
Posts: 4576
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 10:14 am Post subject: Re: My ‘63 Single cab is too low |
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| don.ville wrote: |
| If the flipped ball joints were done to lower the bus, wouldn't the receiving holes have been modified with a different taper for the flipped ball joints? |
Sorta, kinda, but no. I'll be the first to say it, but that looks like a super sketchy arrangement. In the original configuration, the weight of the vehicle and the forces of the road are acting on the ball joints in a fail-safe way that drives them tighter into the torsion arm bores. Mauidude, in your configuration, the weight of the vehicle and the forces of the road are literally HANGING on the ball joints, forever pulling UP on the ball joints and, in theory, trying to pull them OUT of the torsion arms. If I'm wrong, someone please call it. If I'm correct, then the weight of the vehicle is literally hanging on the grip of the press-fit of the ball joints into the bores, so if one lets go, the other will let go in short order and the spindle will literally fall off, that side of the vehicle will drop to the ground.
I hope I'm wrong. But just look at this diagram taken from the gallery, look how the ball joints press UPWARD into the arms, creating a fail-safe condition under the forces exerted onto the arms.
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My name's Steve and it's pronounced "Bust 'em" (cuz people think I'm Tom)
| cory464 wrote: |
| if you aren't perfectly centered in the hole you will have issues when you tap it. |
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Mauidude
Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2022
Posts: 40
Location: Haiku Hawaii
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 12:04 pm Post subject: Re: My ‘63 Single cab is too low |
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Busstom, good point, however lots of cars have the lower ball joint going up into the spindle, the factory five racing cobra replica as an example :
Granted it also has the upper ball joint pointing down.
I hope it’s safe, the previous owner did the work and put lots of miles on it, seems like a cheap way around getting dropped spindles tho.
Last edited by Mauidude on Wed Mar 29, 2023 12:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ceckert64
Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2015
Posts: 2088
Location: Houghton, MI for now
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Ceckert64
Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2015
Posts: 2088
Location: Houghton, MI for now
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 12:09 pm Post subject: Re: My ‘63 Single cab is too low |
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| Mauidude wrote: |
Busstom, good point, however lots of cars have the lower ball joint going up into the spindle, the factory five racing cobra replica as an example :
Granted it also has the upper ball joint pointing down.
I hope it’s safe, the previous owner did the work and put lots of miles on it, seems like a cheap way around getting dropped spindles tho. |
I know the beetles have one up and one down I think, but how your bus currently is set up is definitely not ideal.
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1964 sunroof Beetle Restoration "Herbie"
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Busstom
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014
Posts: 4576
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 12:37 pm Post subject: Re: My ‘63 Single cab is too low |
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| Mauidude wrote: |
| ...lots of cars have the lower ball joint going up into the spindle, the factory five racing cobra replica as an example... |
Mauidude, you're right, other cars do have the ball joint going UP into the torsion arm (or control arms, as it were). However, I'm not sure if you noticed, your ball joints are going DOWN into the torsion arms.
Look at this diagram below, the LOWER Beetle ball joints go IN from below, the ball joints are drawn together by the nuts and have no means of escape. Yours, on the other hand, aren't captured or trapped by anything, your ball joints are free to pop out and let go of the entire spindle/wheel.
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My name's Steve and it's pronounced "Bust 'em" (cuz people think I'm Tom)
| cory464 wrote: |
| if you aren't perfectly centered in the hole you will have issues when you tap it. |
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Busstom
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014
Posts: 4576
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 1:01 pm Post subject: Re: My ‘63 Single cab is too low |
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| don.ville wrote: |
| tpinthepack wrote: |
| Ceckert64 wrote: |
| Those ball joints are upside down, if you flipped them the right way it should lift it up a bit |
Wow, good catch and great call. I did not see that, but you are right, I would put it back the correct way, I think it is safer that way also. |
If the flipped ball joints were done to lower the bus, wouldn't the receiving holes have been modified with a different taper for the flipped ball joints?
Then you could |
don.ville, looking closer, you're also onto something...I'm trying to figure out how the tapered eccentric is receiving the BJ taper from the opposite direction. While it's cropped off of the pics (none of the pics show the top of the upper arms), the eccentric must be on TOP of the upper arms...but the taper for the BJ shank is oriented to receive the BJ from the opposite direction. Something wonky going on. Also I see now that it's an air-shock system, kind of an early "air-ride," if you will.
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My name's Steve and it's pronounced "Bust 'em" (cuz people think I'm Tom)
| cory464 wrote: |
| if you aren't perfectly centered in the hole you will have issues when you tap it. |
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DubStyle
SBS Hit Squad
Joined: July 26, 2003
Posts: 6250
Location: SBS headquarters: Missery
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 1:22 pm Post subject: Re: My ‘63 Single cab is too low |
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| Mauidude wrote: |
Thanks, the front bumper has taken a few hits , smashed pretty bad during shipping, and I’ve hit it going into a gas station. There is no steeingrbox to raise since it has the CE rack setup. Oh and the muffler also drags a little. It’s coming up😎
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Well, that eliminates my suggestion.
You can do anything you like! All you have to do is pull out the money gun and squeeze the trigger!
1. Adjust the beam
2. Adjust the rear spring plate (depending on how much you go up, you could create positive camber)
3. Stock spindles
3. Reduction gearboxes back on
4. Adjustable spring plates to find tune the rear
5. Different exhaust so you don't drag it
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Anthony
SBS #1
SBS #1 on FB
"The original & best lowered Split Bus website/club" |
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widehatch
Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2007
Posts: 777
Location: Memphis, TN aka The Armpit of the South
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 1:35 pm Post subject: Re: My ‘63 Single cab is too low |
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id start with adjusting the front end up.
you'll probably need to adjust the rear up as well.
second id try to contact the previous owner and find out more information on how that front end was built and why the ball joints are in the position they're in and what modifications, if any, were done.
larger tires will also help, if anything they'll help save those wheels. good luck
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Brian_e
Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2009
Posts: 3857
Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 4:19 pm Post subject: Re: My ‘63 Single cab is too low |
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Those spindles are from Vintage Autohaus in France. "French Slammer" They have been doing the flipped ball joint thing for a while now.
I have never held one, but I don't think you will be able to flip them back to stock because the taper for the ball joint shank has been machined to come in from the bottom.
Rotate the adjusters down on the beam and see where that gets you.
Brian
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@Buswerx
Samba Member
Joined: October 26, 2021
Posts: 16
Location: San Luis Obispo
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| Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2023 10:08 pm Post subject: Re: My ‘63 Single cab is too low |
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Is the shock relocation bracket from CE as well.
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