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Trick-e Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2023 Posts: 4 Location: Kewadin, MI
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Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2023 12:35 pm Post subject: High oil pressure. ‘73 914 2.0L Now leaks oil. |
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Hi all.
I’m new to this forum and sporting a 1975 914 with a ‘73 2.0L. I’m hoping for a little help to resolve a high oil pressure issue. Any help would be much appreciated.
Here’s where where we are…
-The case is a replacement ‘GA.’ Supposed to have performance parts added, but that’s undocumented.
-I’ve driven the car for 3 years. Has always started and ran smoothly, idles 900RPM. No smoke, but oil pressure has always been about 62 psi at idle, after warm up and at all RPMs.
-Had low oil pressure light go on a number of times during spirited street driving, so added an oil sump extension ( https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/53f04177-c2aa-4f3...2703560484 )
-After a day at Grattan Raceway, car leaks a lot of oil. Leak starts at 10 minute warmup mark.
-I’ve replaced the oil seals, pushrod tube seals, oil filter, oil cooler, pressure relief spring (stock).
-Running 20w-50 oil.
-‘PCV’ seems to be functioning.
There’s a bit of dirt/grime in the top of the case where the oil filler box meets. (Could be a bad cork gasket, but it’s info.)
-Oil pump is stock.
Appears to be leaking from the oil cooler seals or from cylinder-case between #3 and #4, but hard to tell for sure. Just lots of dirt/grime buildup.
Engine is now out of the car, and I’m out of ideas. I’ve stripped the tins, so the next step is to bench run it.
Any thoughts on why it would run at such a high oil pressure? |
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Starbucket Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2007 Posts: 4130 Location: WA
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Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2023 2:33 pm Post subject: Re: High oil pressure. ‘73 914 2.0L Now leaks oil. |
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20w-50 oil was never used by dealerships if it won't run on 10w-30 it needs an overhaul. Oil is not used it fill excess clearance it's used for cooling and lubrication and the quicker it gets back to the sump and back through the oil cooler and slung back under the pistons from the crank to lube and cool them the better off you are. |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2016 Posts: 299 Location: atlanta ga
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Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2023 1:26 pm Post subject: Re: High oil pressure. ‘73 914 2.0L Now leaks oil. |
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if it has high oil pressure certainly the oil pressure light would not go on. If the oil pressure relief valve just drops out when you remove the big slot screw then it is ok, so clean the engine fix the oil leaks and put a mechanical oil pressure gauge that you know works on the engine and see what you read |
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Trick-e Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2023 Posts: 4 Location: Kewadin, MI
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Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 11:13 am Post subject: Re: High oil pressure. ‘73 914 2.0L Now leaks oil. |
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I can certainly try a little thinner oil, and have confirmed the pressure using a mechanical gauge.
I’m still scratching my head. What could cause high oil pressure, and why is it just now blowing seals. |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 22142 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 11:17 am Post subject: Re: High oil pressure. ‘73 914 2.0L Now leaks oil. |
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Trick-e wrote: |
Hi all.
I’m new to this forum and sporting a 1975 914 with a ‘73 2.0L. I’m hoping for a little help to resolve a high oil pressure issue. Any help would be much appreciated.
Here’s where where we are…
-The case is a replacement ‘GA.’ Supposed to have performance parts added, but that’s undocumented.
-I’ve driven the car for 3 years. Has always started and ran smoothly, idles 900RPM. No smoke, but oil pressure has always been about 62 psi at idle, after warm up and at all RPMs.
-Had low oil pressure light go on a number of times during spirited street driving, so added an oil sump extension ( https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/53f04177-c2aa-4f3...2703560484 )
-After a day at Grattan Raceway, car leaks a lot of oil. Leak starts at 10 minute warmup mark.
-I’ve replaced the oil seals, pushrod tube seals, oil filter, oil cooler, pressure relief spring (stock).
-Running 20w-50 oil.
-‘PCV’ seems to be functioning.
There’s a bit of dirt/grime in the top of the case where the oil filler box meets. (Could be a bad cork gasket, but it’s info.)
-Oil pump is stock.
Appears to be leaking from the oil cooler seals or from cylinder-case between #3 and #4, but hard to tell for sure. Just lots of dirt/grime buildup.
Engine is now out of the car, and I’m out of ideas. I’ve stripped the tins, so the next step is to bench run it.
Any thoughts on why it would run at such a high oil pressure? |
A couple of things.
1. Yes, 20/50 oil is not needed at all.
2. You note that you replaced the oil cooler....and its seals? Did you do it or someone else? And, did you mind the amount of crush and/or note whether your particular case and oil cooler construction....required the thick flat spacers to go on the outside under the nuts or on the inside between case and cooler?
Yes. Its a thing. Anyone who tells you matter of fact...100% that the thick flat spacers on teh oil cooler ALWAYS go on the outside...and never on the inside...is 100% wrong.
I have torn down factory engines with the spacers on the inside and they are required to be there....IF....your oil cooler is constructed a specific way ....AND....if your case is machined a specific way. If your oil seals were installed perfectly....and they still get crushed....you are missing the spacers.
Read this thread. My posts start on the top of page 3. In the middle of 3 I start posting pictures and measurements. You will want to see those. They go through page 5.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...p;start=40
So, did your oil cooler seals come out looking squished when you changed them?
3. Did you check the oil control valve that your engine should have that is under the sheet metal down just below #1 cylinder? It uses a triple square socket to pull the plug out. The factory used a plunger with a spring.
Some high performance mods replace the spring and plunger with a solid metal rod to make for higher pressure and slower drain down after shut down. If you do have a really good pump and tight tolerance....make sure you have the stock spring and plunger.
4. The oil leak being over by #3 and 4 can also be oil blown off of the fan with the fan seal leaking. Is your fan bolted on using stock bolts and do they have the thin wavy wahers or some type of lock washer underneath?
If not, the bolts may penetrate too deep and couple with a little crank end play they can gouge teh seal causing leakage.
5. Are you sure your pump is an original type 4 pump?
Ray |
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Trick-e Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2023 Posts: 4 Location: Kewadin, MI
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Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 6:35 pm Post subject: Re: High oil pressure. ‘73 914 2.0L Now leaks oil. |
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Ray,
Thank you for your help! Going point-by-point…
1. Will lighten the oil.
2. I’ve changed the cooler seals and later the cooler. No spacers and never leaked before. Not sure it leaks from the cooler. Do use wider and thicker washers on the outside. I’m gonna read your other post that you linked. I’d heard that spacers were an old wives’s tale, so am curious to what you found.
3. Pressure relief spring has been replaced. When pulling the piston/spring it came out easily. Found no gouges/marks so don’t think it was bound up.
4. Correct fan assembly bolts/screws/ washers used, but as I’m still nailing down the exact point of the leak, fan impeller could be blowing it back. Will find out when I run it without the tins.
5. Pump is a Type IV stock. Didn’t measure the gears, but the inner and outer parts IDs match the stock IDs.
I did discover that the bottom driver side engine bar mount bolt hole intrudes on an oil passageway. (Factory designed that way.) In the bolt holes are helicoils, which, along with a bent engine carrier bar, seems to support that the car ran over something, bent the bar and pulled stripped the bolt holes. Long story short, if the helicoils are too deep and intrude on the oil passageway, that could increase pressure. I’ll measure that tomorrow.
I talked with George Hussey today (Uber friendly and helpful). He reminded me to not worry about the pressure (engine has run just fine for years), solve the leak.
Next step is to bench run it and narrow it down where she’s spitting from. |
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Starbucket Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2007 Posts: 4130 Location: WA
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Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 6:59 pm Post subject: Re: High oil pressure. ‘73 914 2.0L Now leaks oil. |
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You say the leak started after some "Spirited" street racing and the oil pressure light hade come on several times so you may have scored a cyl. and are now pressurizing the crankcase blowing oil past the seals, time for a compression check. |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2016 Posts: 299 Location: atlanta ga
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Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2023 8:49 am Post subject: Re: High oil pressure. ‘73 914 2.0L Now leaks oil. |
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Starbucket wrote: |
You say the leak started after some "Spirited" street racing and the oil pressure light hade come on several times so you may have scored a cyl. and are now pressurizing the crankcase blowing oil past the seals, time for a compression check. |
good point leakdown would be a good thing to do and see if the crankcase is being pressurized |
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Trick-e Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2023 Posts: 4 Location: Kewadin, MI
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Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2023 6:53 pm Post subject: Re: High oil pressure. ‘73 914 2.0L Now leaks oil. |
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Very good. Will do.
Thanks for the help. 🙂 |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 22142 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2023 7:13 pm Post subject: Re: High oil pressure. ‘73 914 2.0L Now leaks oil. |
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Trick-e wrote: |
Ray,
Thank you for your help! Going point-by-point…
1. Will lighten the oil.
2. I’ve changed the cooler seals and later the cooler. No spacers and never leaked before. Not sure it leaks from the cooler. Do use wider and thicker washers on the outside. I’m gonna read your other post that you linked. I’d heard that spacers were an old wives’s tale, so am curious to what you found.
3. Pressure relief spring has been replaced. When pulling the piston/spring it came out easily. Found no gouges/marks so don’t think it was bound up.
4. Correct fan assembly bolts/screws/ washers used, but as I’m still nailing down the exact point of the leak, fan impeller could be blowing it back. Will find out when I run it without the tins.
5. Pump is a Type IV stock. Didn’t measure the gears, but the inner and outer parts IDs match the stock IDs.
I did discover that the bottom driver side engine bar mount bolt hole intrudes on an oil passageway. (Factory designed that way.) In the bolt holes are helicoils, which, along with a bent engine carrier bar, seems to support that the car ran over something, bent the bar and pulled stripped the bolt holes. Long story short, if the helicoils are too deep and intrude on the oil passageway, that could increase pressure. I’ll measure that tomorrow.
I talked with George Hussey today (Uber friendly and helpful). He reminded me to not worry about the pressure (engine has run just fine for years), solve the leak.
Next step is to bench run it and narrow it down where she’s spitting from. |
Bear in mind...I was not speaking of the "oil pressure relief valve"...which is on the LEFT side of the bottom of the engine down below #4...big screwdriver slot cap.
I am speaking of the "oil pressure control valve" that should be...if you have one....down just below the pushrod tubes on the RIGHT hand side below cylinder #1.
If thats been modified.....it "could" cause excessive pressure in the whole system.
Also, did you replace all of the galley plugs during the rebuild?
Yes, you need to read that thread and look at my pictures. There are two totally different construction methods of the cooler. There are pictures of this.
One places more pressure on the seals and one puts less on the seals.
Also pictures are in that thread and the one I linked to of the different STOCK machine work on cases that make having spacers a REQUIREMENT on some cases.
And, if you needed to replace the rear main seal....be sure to measure the seal recess depth in the case. There were two different seal depths. The common one is about 9.5 to 10mm and the deeper one is ~12 to 12.5mm and requires the use of the Vanagon seal part #. Yes they came from the factory this way.
If you have a deep seal recess and put in the standard seal and only make it flush with the case....not seated all the way...and can and will cock in the bore, quickly wearing elliptical and leak like mad.
You can read about that here and see pictures:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8604309#8604309
Ray |
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