Finally out of hiding. February 1944 Type 60 KDF

[sinclair]

Last year I was lucky enough to acquire an unusual early chassis. It had belonged to a friend for many years which helped when it came to tracing some of its history. It came to him underneath a Kubelwagen, but he quickly realised it was not original to the body and was in fact early beetle, he replaced it with a correct 82 chassis. So for many years it sat to one side.

I've been able to trace its history back to 1980's Czechoslovakia. Where this very solid and original saloon chassis was used to replace that of a fairly rusty 41 Kubelwagen. Unfortunately at that time they removed the Vin plate from the tunnel behind the gearstick and refitted the plate from the Kubel in front of the gearstick with plumbers solder. there was evidence of the original vin welds, more on that later.

The chassis itself is in really solid original condition. there are some early gas weld repairs and a battery tray repair but all else is factory. Interestingly one side of the rear suspension has the correct cog logo casting and the other an earlier windmill style. Also the drivers pan has a drain hole punched out for a late Kubel but the other has not. Both original factory fitment and the hole neatly covered from new.
So what indicates it being a beetle? No floor drains, no bash plate fixings, internal heater cable, original vin location and captive nut in the frame head for the barrel tank support. "Ah!" I hear someone say "the first Kubels also had this captive nut." True, but my chassis is all original factory welded and has later parts, so cannot be an earlier. But also the frame head number is clearly stamped and correct for early 1944.
I will admit that by this time I was staring to feel the burden of responsibility. To build this car properly will not be cheap. And I retired early to enjoy a frugal and simple life in the woods! However the combination of a lifetime in engineering after studying archaeology at uni has meant I just can't let go of it.
So why the mix of floor and casting? You have to consider that in 1944 the factory was churning out thousands of kubels for the war effort and only a small percentage, around 120 beetles. Short supply of materials and a captive workforce who were "less than keen" and it's easy to see how one incorrect pan could have been selected and an earlier casting being found in the parts bin. (in my industry parts were forever being taken for various reasons and returned to stock sometimes years later)
So back to my frame head number, which is key.

I was lucky to discover that it is very close indeed to another surviving car with a known vin, that car being an 82e. I had read that by 44 all paint was sand colour but my chassis still has a lot of its dark grey under the red lead and silver,
especially internally. However counting back through the production list from the known car gave me vin 1-034133, a type 60 supplied NSDAP Munich which would explain the non military paint maybe. Though I note there is a well known 44 type 82e with the same chassis paint. While there is no overall direct correlation over time between the chassis frame head number and the vin it is given. I made an assumption that 2 cars built in say the same morning shift and only a few vin numbers apart, may use chassis built and stamped sequentially too.
My archaeological training tells me take it slowly and be in no rush to blast and restore the chassis until it had revealed all its secrets. Inspired by Ondrej Broom and his excellent book, I was keen to try some new techniques or non destructive paint removal, one of which being laser cleaning.

test areas to reveal the dark grey were not positive as the laser favours removal of dark colour. but it was very good at surface rust and exposing detail. it removes everything without dimensional change to the metal. It's expensive at £600/day but I managed to get a free trial. I especially wanted the original vin area laser cleaned to look closely at the tag plate welds.The original vin plate being welded to the chassis there was no chance of finding any stamping underneath but I decided to concentrate on that area before it went to be blasted. I used a combination of dusting paint, very gentle rubbing back, acid and low power laser. In the correct light you could almost imagine seeing something, so I persevered looking closely seemed to make it disappear, but when photographed and the contrast etc edited numbers became visible. What I have discovered is certainly not my vin stamping, because I think the plate would have been stamped before being fitted. This is the shadow of where the stamped numbers contacted the chassis tunnel and the marks left by their ageing together over the years.

interestingly the large image in the gallery is illegible where as the thumbnail is quite clear. the eye needs to ignore the detail to make the picture visible as a whole it seems. So I have my vin confirmed at last. 1-034133 Build 22nd February 1944 a type 60L.
This chassis still has secrets to reveal. One being the notches on the heater cable conduit.

these slots were not evident in earlier cars or immediate post war, but look to have been machined before the conduit was installed. another well known car from 44 shares this feature and has a clip fitted to stop the cable from sliding back and closing off the heat exchangers.

The next step is a visit to the grit blasters ensuring I am there for every step of the process.
I debated long and hard about making this public, as it seems the older and more valuable the car, the more vocal and entrenched opinions can be and knowledge kept close to the chest. I have been lucky to find a handful of quiet enthusiasts across Europe, focusing on early 40's saloons who have little or no social media or internet presence and the most generous of attitudes when it comes to sharing knowledge and parts. But my hope is that by documenting the build here on thesamba, it may lead to making new contacts and at the very least give the car the chance to say to the world "Hey! I'm still here"

[TRS63]

That is excellent ! My knowledge on 40s cars is really low but I appreciate a lot you sharing it here to enjoy and learn ! Thanks!

Bests

Antoine
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Antoine
My 62 ragtop daily driver:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=728873
My 914 restoration&lightweight project :
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9698432#9698432
Resurrecting a 60 ghia : https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=713906
My 52 Standard Zwitter :
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=10086685#10086685

[sinclair]

[finster]

interesting 'carchaeology'. by the term 'windmill' logo do you mean the spinning swastika?
what's the plan with the build?
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nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect...

[sinclair]

[EverettB]

Interesting thread, thanks for posting.

[Eric&Barb]

Most excellent!!
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In Stereo, Where Available!

[sinclair]

[DDub]

So how does the laser know when to stop burning? Is that operated controlled or does it just cut through rust and dirt?

[sinclair]

[DDub]

OK, what I am asking is the intensity adjustable? Or does the operator have to make sure it doesn't cut into the good metal?

[sinclair]

[DDub]

Obviously I have no experience with this. looks impressive. Is it expensive to buy or rent or do you have to pay someone else to do it?

[sinclair]

[TornadoRed06]

First of all, congratulations for embracing this project. I would like to express gratitude for documenting & sharing all this here at The Samba. Hope that one day all of us can see it fully refurbished and built.

[cyberdyne systems 101]

So glad you posted about this, really interesting to read and, amazing that you were so able to identify the vin despite its removal.

I hope you'll update this thread as and when you have more to add.
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56' Oval
71' Westy

[maplesyrup]

This will be fun, thanks for sharing
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[sotos]