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Adoom
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 34
Location: Pickering, Ontario, canada
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 Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2024 7:36 am Post subject: 1968 Squareback - The Keep-ening |
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I will admit, I came very close to giving up our 1968 Squareback. We had agreed to purchase a 1971 Dodge campervan, we would sell the VW, and we would live happily (?) ever after.
Then I drove the Squareback "one last time"...and I couldn't do it.
The short version of the long conversation with The Wife™ revealed what her real issues are with riding in the Square, and my goal, now, is to make it a better ride for her.
1. Seatbelts. She's had some bad seatbelt experiences and the old non-retractable belts are very scary for her. Easy fix, looks like CIP1.ca has what I need.
2. Hard starts. This is happening more and more often, and is getting very frustrating. I'm considering going electronic ignition, but I can't figure out what to get. Seems like everything is geared to beetle or bus out there. Also need to do a deep dive on my Solex PHN single side draft carb. Initial testing showed that the idle valve doesn't "click" when 12v is applied and the choke doesn't warm up. There's power, but no worky.
3. Body issues. Both the car and myself need some help, but at least I can work on the car with some sand paper, primer, and welding in new rocker panels
4. Noise. It's a darn loud car, and I don't know what to do except spend my kids inheritance on dynamat...just kidding, I don't have money for their inheritance.
5. Lack of A.C. To be clear, this isn't a deal breaker, but I did find an aftermarket AC system that uses an electric pump instead of a pully off the motor. Tempting and simple...but worried my generator won't keep up.
So I'm looking for some assistance in shopping (I'm in Canada). I'm trying to figure out an electronic ignition AND the choke/idle valve for the carb. Any help would be appreciated!
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1968 Squareback |
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Erik G
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13587
Location: Tejas!
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| Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2024 8:56 am Post subject: Re: 1968 Squareback - The Keep-ening |
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#2 - is the motor turning over quickly with the starter, it's just not firing quickly? If so, tune up and timing. Get that dialed in, then you can do a drop in points replacement. Doing points replacement first will not really help. If it's rotating slow, check the starter bushing or replace the starter with an auto starter that is self supporting and doesnt need the bushing
#4 - These cars are actually pretty quiet. a squareback is louder than a notchback or fastback put not much. do you have aftermarket crappy fitting exhaust? holes in the muffler? no interior?
#5 - you're right, your generator won't even come close to keeping up. look into alternator swaps and lean to the big ones, bug generator flipped backwards and trimmed down seems to be the biggest bang for the buck
Last edited by Erik G on Mon Sep 23, 2024 8:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Adoom
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 34
Location: Pickering, Ontario, canada
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| Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2024 9:36 am Post subject: Re: 1968 Squareback - The Keep-ening |
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Hey,
The starter actually spins very well (to my genuine surprise after having a slow starter bus for nearly 2 decades). It just doesn't catch. OR sometimes it will catch immediately for a single fire..then I have to feather the throttle, pray to the VW gods, and wait for it to barely catch...feather some more...slowly getting better...for about 1 minute until it starts to smooth out and then maybe it will allow me to take off in gear...or maybe it will die the moment I let the clutch out.
Edited to add: once warm and running, it's a great little runner.
After it's been running for a while (so hot), if I try to re-start it, we are back to praying to the VW gods with my foot to the floor on the accelerator pedal hoping for a fire.
#4 Exhaust is stock, in good working order. It's the interior noise that is frustrating. I may "go to town" with some amazon dynamat I found cheap.
#5 I was just now looking at a recent post on an aftermarket 150amp alternator upgrade. While not simple..I think it may be at the far end of my fabrication ability, but within reach.
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squaretobehip
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2004
Posts: 4080
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2024 10:29 am Post subject: Re: 1968 Squareback - The Keep-ening |
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Before you go full ham and start throwing parts at it, I would try and tackle the low hanging fruit. Why is it running so poorly? When it runs better, add those seat belts. After the seat belts, why is it so loud? I don't remember my Squareback being super loud with a stock exhaust. Do you have a rubber mat? Is there insulation in the cargo area below the rubber mat?
Also, AC is a big undertaking. I would tackle the other things, then go for another drive with your pop-outs open and the vent wings open, if it is warm out (getting a little cooler here now).
Also, you didn't pay the picture tax. We need pics! 
_________________
1963 Notchback - Ruby Red
1963 Squareback - Pearl White
1965 Squareback - Baltic Blue
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 23022
Location: Northwest of Normal
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| Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2024 10:57 am Post subject: Re: 1968 Squareback - The Keep-ening |
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Loud running- if it isn't exhaust- is it a wheel bearing hum? Is it noise from squashed engine/ transmission mounts? Is it road noise from crappy tires? Type 3s are usually relatively quiet cars.
On your hard start- dribble some gas into the carb or intake. Does it start right off now?
On your electronic ignition conversion- to me, the ONLY choice is a 123 ignition with a fresh coil with the proper resistance, new ignition cables, and NGK nonresistor plugs. BUT this will be an enhancement, it won't solve problems UNLESS the problems are definitively in the ignition system.
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
Those who can- do.
Those who can't? Subaru. |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 23577
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2024 11:40 am Post subject: Re: 1968 Squareback - The Keep-ening |
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| Adoom wrote: |
I will admit, I came very close to giving up our 1968 Squareback. We had agreed to purchase a 1971 Dodge campervan, we would sell the VW, and we would live happily (?) ever after.
Then I drove the Squareback "one last time"...and I couldn't do it.
The short version of the long conversation with The Wife™ revealed what her real issues are with riding in the Square, and my goal, now, is to make it a better ride for her.
1. Seatbelts. She's had some bad seatbelt experiences and the old non-retractable belts are very scary for her. Easy fix, looks like CIP1.ca has what I need.
2. Hard starts. This is happening more and more often, and is getting very frustrating. I'm considering going electronic ignition, but I can't figure out what to get. Seems like everything is geared to beetle or bus out there. Also need to do a deep dive on my Solex PHN single side draft carb. Initial testing showed that the idle valve doesn't "click" when 12v is applied and the choke doesn't warm up. There's power, but no worky.
3. Body issues. Both the car and myself need some help, but at least I can work on the car with some sand paper, primer, and welding in new rocker panels
4. Noise. It's a darn loud car, and I don't know what to do except spend my kids inheritance on dynamat...just kidding, I don't have money for their inheritance.
5. Lack of A.C. To be clear, this isn't a deal breaker, but I did find an aftermarket AC system that uses an electric pump instead of a pully off the motor. Tempting and simple...but worried my generator won't keep up.
So I'm looking for some assistance in shopping (I'm in Canada). I'm trying to figure out an electronic ignition AND the choke/idle valve for the carb. Any help would be appreciated! |
I'm just across the river from Canada, so our weather is similar for the most part.
Sounds like you have #1figured out (CIP retractable seat belts).
Now for the hard starts... It's possible that your mechanical fuel pump is on it's way out (getting weak). Myself I've gone to a low pressure electric pump as I've had several mechanical ones fail (I've got an all aluminum case engine in my Notch, and I've heat soaked 3 mechanical pumps so far). I'm also running dual Solex carbs too. As for the electric idle jet, you should be able to find one from CIP. Remove your old one and on the brass tip should be a number, that's the jet size you need to find. In my case I went to mechanical jets after having issues with the electric ones about 15 years ago. Those jets are still available from some of the better VW parts dealers like CB Performance.
As for body issues, it sounds like you know what needs to be done there. That Dodge you're looking at might have a bunch of hidden rust on it too (we are in the rust belt). At least with the type 3, you have a known quantity, and where the rust (major work) is.
Noise; If there's a lot of bare metal showing it won't be very quiet. All of that insulation is there for a reason. My 69 and 70 Squares were fairly quiet, even running a header with either a single quiet pack muffler, or a cherry bomb muffler with a tail pipe on it (that pipe really knocked the sound down).
Lack of AC; Look thru the forum site as John J (he's in Dearborn Mich (also across the river from Canada)) added electric AC to his wife's T-34 KG. He swapped out the generator for an alternator and made a custom belt pulley (serpentine style) that attaches at the crankshaft (he can probably explain it better than I can). I think he said he went with a 155 amp alternator, but I could be wrong. He did a build thread of it, including pics of what he used and where he got it from. It's just a matter of searching for it. His wife Jill drove it to the type 3 Invasion this past summer, and reported it worked great.
As for an electronic ignition, Tram recommends going to a 123 distributor, as it's all electronic, and is even compatible with FI. But it also has several versions with different advance curves and can be had "blue tooth" compatible too. I've been considering getting one myself after hearing good things about it. A quick search of the forum will bring up some results on it.
Basically everything you need to "modernize" your Squareback IS out there, and available. You've already taken the first steps by looking around to address some of her concerns, now it's just a matter of hunting down the rest of the info and pulling the trigger. I hope this helps.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Adoom
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 34
Location: Pickering, Ontario, canada
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| Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2024 12:05 pm Post subject: Re: 1968 Squareback - The Keep-ening |
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In an attempt to appease the photo gods, please see some pics attached. Will take pics of more relevant content once I'm with the car. (at work at the moment)
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squaretobehip
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2004
Posts: 4080
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2024 1:10 pm Post subject: Re: 1968 Squareback - The Keep-ening |
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Step 1: Get that fuel filter out of your engine bay and re-route that fuel line below the manifold.
Those stripes are pretty sweet!
_________________
1963 Notchback - Ruby Red
1963 Squareback - Pearl White
1965 Squareback - Baltic Blue
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KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 36356
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2024 1:19 pm Post subject: Re: 1968 Squareback - The Keep-ening |
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A stiffened engine lid seal can let in a lot of engine noise. To a lesser degree a broken rear hatch seal can let in noise, and worse, CO from exhaust, due to the aerodynamics of the Squareback.
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Current Fleet:
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Retired:
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- '65 Beetle (x2)
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Adoom
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 34
Location: Pickering, Ontario, canada
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| Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2024 2:33 pm Post subject: Re: 1968 Squareback - The Keep-ening |
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| squaretobehip wrote: |
| Step 1: Get that fuel filter out of your engine bay and re-route that fuel line below the manifold. |
Forgive the ignorance: where do you run your fuel filter? And the hose goes under the intake manifold? (Seems like a sharp dive from the hole to under the manifold.)
Further to the other suggestions today:
1. Thank you, I am reinvigorated to work on this.
2. Plan of attack, I like the "low hanging fruit" suggestion, so my plan is to drop in the new points that have been sitting in my glove box for over a year. Re-run the fuel line as suggested. And try to do a tune-up/timing with what I have got. I may pull the carb for a cleaning and see if I can get the idle valve to work again (if not I will put in a new one).
3. Install the new seat belts is an easy fix.
Next spring I will worry about installing A.C. The car goes into safe keeping in a little over a month for the snowy months here. I want to get it running well before then, so that next spring we are talking about the "nice-to-haves" instead of must haves.
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squaretobehip
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2004
Posts: 4080
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2024 4:12 pm Post subject: Re: 1968 Squareback - The Keep-ening |
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| Adoom wrote: |
| squaretobehip wrote: |
| Step 1: Get that fuel filter out of your engine bay and re-route that fuel line below the manifold. |
Forgive the ignorance: where do you run your fuel filter? And the hose goes under the intake manifold? (Seems like a sharp dive from the hole to under the manifold.) |
You can add an "L" piece of pipe and run in through the tin there (make sure it has a grommet around it to prevent metal on metal). That will drop it down, then you can run it under the manifold to the fuel pump. The fuel filter can be moved in front of the engine bay, over the transmission.
_________________
1963 Notchback - Ruby Red
1963 Squareback - Pearl White
1965 Squareback - Baltic Blue
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 23022
Location: Northwest of Normal
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| Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2024 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: 1968 Squareback - The Keep-ening |
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| squaretobehip wrote: |
| Adoom wrote: |
| squaretobehip wrote: |
| Step 1: Get that fuel filter out of your engine bay and re-route that fuel line below the manifold. |
Forgive the ignorance: where do you run your fuel filter? And the hose goes under the intake manifold? (Seems like a sharp dive from the hole to under the manifold.) |
You can add an "L" piece of pipe and run in through the tin there (make sure it has a grommet around it to prevent metal on metal). That will drop it down, then you can run it under the manifold to the fuel pump. The fuel filter can be moved in front of the engine bay, over the transmission. |
This is what VW says to do- the logic being that if the filter breaks or leaks the fuel just flows onto the ground rather than leaking on to or blowing on to things that go spark.
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
Those who can- do.
Those who can't? Subaru. |
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Adoom
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 34
Location: Pickering, Ontario, canada
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| Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2024 8:07 pm Post subject: Re: 1968 Squareback - The Keep-ening |
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Ok, pulled the idle cut off...According to my TheSamba searching, this appears to be the wrong one? From what I've read the correct valve/jet would have "1.8" stamped on it. Mine has "12" stamped on it.
Mine also has a grub screw.
Are these things rebuildable? It doesn't seem like it's an easy part to find/order.
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Adoom
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 34
Location: Pickering, Ontario, canada
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| Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2024 8:09 pm Post subject: Re: 1968 Squareback - The Keep-ening |
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Actually, seeing the high-res image, it looks like it says "12V"...so if that is the case, there isn't a size. Unless I'm missing it...hmmm
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Adoom
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 34
Location: Pickering, Ontario, canada
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| Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2024 8:15 pm Post subject: Re: 1968 Squareback - The Keep-ening |
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Gotta love old eyes and new tech. I found a "50" label.
Still, apparently this is the wrong valve? Can anyone confirm or deny?
Aaaand it would appear my choke element is no longer doing it's thing. Thoughts there?
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busman78
Samba Member
Joined: August 17, 2004
Posts: 4667
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
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| Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2024 5:13 am Post subject: Re: 1968 Squareback - The Keep-ening |
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| The "50" is the idle jet orifice size. |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 23577
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2024 1:05 pm Post subject: Re: 1968 Squareback - The Keep-ening |
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| busman78 wrote: |
| The "50" is the idle jet orifice size. |
What he said^^. You'll most likely find a 45 or a 55, as those seem to be more common. Don't be afraid to look for bug parts for some of this, as it might be in stock (the electric jet and choke). Some of the Solex carb parts do interchange over the different models.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 36356
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2024 1:26 pm Post subject: Re: 1968 Squareback - The Keep-ening |
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Can a plain idle jet be used, like it can on Bug/Bus carbs?
_________________
Current Fleet:
- '71 Fastback
- '69 Westfalia
Retired:
- '67 Beetle
- '65 Beetle (x2)
- '65 Bus
- '71 Squareback |
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busman78
Samba Member
Joined: August 17, 2004
Posts: 4667
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
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| Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2024 5:37 pm Post subject: Re: 1968 Squareback - The Keep-ening |
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| Yes, but with a type 3 the manifolds/carbs get a little toasty due to the confined engine compartment and the engine has a tendency to “run on / diesel” when shut down. The idle shut off solenoids solve that issue. You will be happier with them. |
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Adoom
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 34
Location: Pickering, Ontario, canada
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| Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2024 9:07 am Post subject: Re: 1968 Squareback - The Keep-ening |
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I'm wondering if this valve from CIP would do the trick.
https://www.cip1.ca/vwc-058-129-413-d/
I know it's not good to "just throw parts at it", but sometimes i just want to buy a part instead of dissecting them.
Actually, I think...I've already dissected this valve before now that I think of it. I got it working 6 or so years ago. So maybe I can fix it again, or just get a new one if I can.
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