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cord4530
Samba Member
Joined: May 25, 2017
Posts: 17
Location: ID
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 Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2025 9:50 am Post subject: Full Size vs. Mini Sand Rail |
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I grew up near Florance, OR and spent a lot of time riding the dunes there (mostly ATVs). I would like to spend more time in the dunes, but my wife isn't comfortable riding her own ATV. I was looking at the idea of a sand rail of some sort. I would like something mid to long travel, with enough oomph to make sure we can get up hills as we explore around. I have no plans of hillclimb or flat racing.
I've seen several of the smaller Hayabusa-powered mini rails, and wondering how these compare in the dunes to a full-size rail. I'm not looking for a power monster or anything. If I went full-size I do have a spare Type 4 bus engine and 091 transmission I could build, or (gasp!) several Subaru EJ25s. Do the mini and full-size rails have similar reliability? Do the mini rails ride much rougher due to short wheelbase? For a mini I would probably be considering a used Tom Pro Designs buggy, or for a full-size maybe something like the Buggy Shop Twister. It's just the two of us, so a two-seat buggy would be plenty.
I guess another alternative would be a Manx-style buggy. I built one about 25 years ago (mostly street use though). Getting a mid or long travel setup under a Manx seems much harder compared to a rail.
For those with experience, I would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks in advance.
-Dan
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Dusty1
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Joined: April 16, 2004
Posts: 2186
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2025 5:16 pm Post subject: Re: Full Size vs. Mini Sand Rail |
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I'm a motorcycle guy. I wouldn't screw around with a motorcycle engine in a buggy. NO REVERSE. While a 'Busa has enough schtoink to scare the wits out of you and the Missus on two wheels there are better ways to get around on four wheels.
Full disclosure, my step- sister is confined to a wheelchair after an ATV accident.
"With age comes a cage". A Subaru powered buggy is more than you'll ever need in the dunes. Carefully contemplate and consider what it will do if you get upside- down.
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Dusty1
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Joined: April 16, 2004
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BFB
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Joined: November 03, 2014
Posts: 2825
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2025 5:32 pm Post subject: Re: Full Size vs. Mini Sand Rail |
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you can have reverse on chain driven buggy just like some motorcycled powered trikes have it.
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"how am i supposed to torque the rear wheel nut to 250 ft lbs??? " - clonebug
An interesting thing happens in forums where everyone starts parroting the same thing and "common knowledge" takes over.
Most experts aren't. |
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cord4530
Samba Member
Joined: May 25, 2017
Posts: 17
Location: ID
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2025 9:50 pm Post subject: Re: Full Size vs. Mini Sand Rail |
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| Dusty1 wrote: |
I'm a motorcycle guy. I wouldn't screw around with a motorcycle engine in a buggy. NO REVERSE. While a 'Busa has enough schtoink to scare the wits out of you and the Missus on two wheels there are better ways to get around on four wheels.
Full disclosure, my step- sister is confined to a wheelchair after an ATV accident.
"With age comes a cage". A Subaru powered buggy is more than you'll ever need in the dunes. Carefully contemplate and consider what it will do if you get upside- down.
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Thanks for the note! I'm also a motorcycle guy (10 currently, mix of street and off-road). I know that in a 500 lb street bike the Hayabusa engine is very robust. But throw it into a 900 lb chassis and run it through sand and I expect there could be some reliability issues - especially related to cooling. Many of the turbo hayabusa rails don't have any sort of intercooler either.
I've also had neighbors who got really badly hurt on ATVs. Tip over in the wrong place and they'll crush you.
I love the cosmetic of the fiberglass dune buggy. If I were to go that route I would probably be building a tubular chassis around the body (or have Dave from manxchassis build it). But the engineer in me says that is making a bunch of sub-optimal choices in suspension and weight just for a cosmetic benefit, which brings me back to a rail (possibly with an enclosed nose at least).
The Tom Pro Design Hayabusa sand cars do have a reverse gearbox. It's separate from the engine/transmission, but it's there if it's needed. The other benefits to the mini rail are that it is a little lighter, and quite a bit smaller, so it fits on/in trailers easier, and fits on the same size trails as most UTVs. But if reliability isn't there, or if they're horribly uncomfortable then I should probably cross those off my list. |
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Dusty1
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Joined: April 16, 2004
Posts: 2186
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2025 12:35 pm Post subject: Re: Full Size vs. Mini Sand Rail |
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| cord4530 wrote: |
| I love the cosmetic of the fiberglass dune buggy. If I were to go that route I would probably be building a tubular chassis around the body (or have Dave from manxchassis build it). But the engineer in me says that is making a bunch of sub-optimal choices in suspension and weight just for a cosmetic benefit, which brings me back to a rail (possibly with an enclosed nose at least). |
It rains here back East. And... I like a Bug that's nice and tight on dusty roads. And a Parker pumper.
A normal 1960s dune buggy is a poor compromise in many ways. A Bug might be considered one of the original unibody cars. The body and chassis function as a unit.. Remove the body, a lot of strength goes away.
The best of everything is to combine a dune buggy with a tube chassis, a sand rail in a party dress as it were. The fiberglass body doesn't weigh that much. The more mud, sand and weather you can keep outside the car, the more likely your Missus will enjoy it.
You have a better chance of selling a well build buggy compared to a motorcycle powered mutt if you have to.
You have a better chance of driving a well built buggy to work or anywhere else for that matter.
Toys are more fun when you can play with them anywhere, any time.
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 14941
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2025 1:16 pm Post subject: Re: Full Size vs. Mini Sand Rail |
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Or you can take the purse off your shoulder and just go for it!
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Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old! |
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Stinky123
Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2022
Posts: 234
Location: Grand Junction, CO
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2025 9:25 pm Post subject: Re: Full Size vs. Mini Sand Rail |
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You left out Side by Sides.....
Polaris RZRs and the like. They come in 50" models and wider 2 seaters and 4 seaters.
You can get a pretty decent used one for under $10K.
A foot of wheel travel is fairly common.
A Manx buggy is not all that great in the dunes.
AFAIK....Honda is the only one that comes w/a conventional automatic trans. It is like a car trans, and it has paddle shifters on the steering wheel. I think that the others are all CVTs/
a 50" SXS will fit in the bed of a full-sized PU.
Here are the Polaris specs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polaris_RZR |
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