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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 13411
Location: West Coast, USA
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 Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2025 10:16 pm Post subject: Re: Steering Coupling Disc 211415417 (coupler) |
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| Jason0115 wrote: |
My question:
Item #2: When you pull up or push down on the steering wheel, the coupler flexes up and down, moving the wheel/steering rod about a half inch in either direction.
Here is a video of both scenarios:
Link
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Skipping to part b… Those flange-head nuts are shiny, but are they true locking nuts? The original early bay castle nuts didn't mess around… I like a good mechanical locking nut here. And fender washers. Four total, under the nuts that are currently resting right on the rubber.
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Xevin 
Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014
Posts: 8482
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2025 6:47 am Post subject: Re: Steering Coupling Disc 211415417 (coupler) |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| SGKent wrote: |
| how much smaller are the bug / vanagon ones 111-415-417 / 251-419-417B ? |
20 or 30% smaller in diameter. |
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| 67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!  |
| Clatter wrote: |
| Damn that Xevin... |
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I respect Xevin and he's a turd  |
| SGKent wrote: |
My God! Xevin and I 100% agree  |
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Jason0115
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2021
Posts: 113
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2025 8:30 am Post subject: Re: Steering Coupling Disc 211415417 (coupler) |
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| airschooled wrote: |
Skipping to part b… Those flange-head nuts are shiny, but are they true locking nuts? The original early bay castle nuts didn't mess around… I like a good mechanical locking nut here. And fender washers. Four total, under the nuts that are currently resting right on the rubber. |
Nuts: Top Lock Flange Nut DIN 6927 Steel Class 10 Hardened
Bolts: M8 Flange Bolt DIN 6921 Class 10.9 Steel
Washers: Steel, Form A Curved Wave Washer DIN 137A
All from Belmetric
I suppose I should have used thick fender washers for the nuts resting on the rubber instead of the wave washers. |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 23015
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2025 2:43 pm Post subject: Re: Steering Coupling Disc 211415417 (coupler) |
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Yes, those are good lock nuts. Personally I try not to use that type of locknut on "STUDS" or bolts that are hard to find because the top distorted thread can damage the thread on a stud depending on how well the locknut is manufactured.
But that is not the case here. The bolts on this joint are readily replaceable and those should be excellent locknuts.
Airschooled said:
| Quote: |
| The original early bay castle nuts didn't mess around… I like a good mechanical locking nut here. And fender washers. Four total, under the nuts that are currently resting right on the rubber. |
I totally agree about castle nuts...especially on items like ball joints and tie rod ends and suspension parts in general. Nothing beats the positivity of a cotter pin or stainless wire through a hole.
But you bring up something else with the "fender washer" comment......
I said this a page back and I meant it.....
raygreenwood said:
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I may be wrong but I doubt it.
That is too many layers of cords with too little rubber in between.
The cords in rubber sheets limit the lateral/radial flex....meaning the twisting force/movement. They also make for higher tear resistant.
But....those cords do not add stiffness in the axial direction. Though the rubber might be the correct durometer....excessive amounts of cord removes rubber volume so it will act like a lower durometer rubber in the axial direction. Ray |
I bring your attention to the highlighted sentences. And...this is exactly what we are seeing here.
The radial or twisting strength of this coupler looks great in your video. However, the axial flexability is too high......
.....that is unless you find something loose or wrong in the column itself....
Going back to what Airchooled said that I quoted above.....
Yes....I think fender washers, wider than the flange nut could add axial stiffness to this coupler.
So if that works...think about this for one step better.
Why not make a pair of washer plates. One goes to the steering box yoke bolts and is under the nuts on the steering column side and one goes to the steering column bolts and is on the steering box side and they are 90* perpendicular to each other on opposite sides of the rubber coupler so they do not touch.
Those plates are green in that sketch. You will possibly need four shim washers (in red) to make sure that neither yoke comes in contact with the washer plates passing underneath them.
By the way, this is NOT my design/idea. I have actually seen these exact plates on a rag joint. It was on a car other than a VW but I do not remember if it was American, Japanese, Eurpean or a damn tractor. These would make that coupling nice and stiff in the axial direction.
So....as I noted.....and why I noted this..... after 35 pages of every other coupler on the planet being shit for one reason or another.... or when they are good they turn out to be no longer available....
There are a lot of people piling on and stating.... "Lares is the PROFESSIONALS choice/answer....why look any further?". Because of reasons like this problem and variable availability....so far.
And, I have said it before....in this thread....many pages ago.....no one is testing anything really. Folding a rubber coupler in your hand tests for nothing. Its a comparison saying "this looks similar to that". But what parameter is it REALLY quantifying?
Its kind of like comparing an orange to a pomegranite and saying they are both the same because they are the same diameter.
As I stated, the excessive amount of rag layers in this particular Lares joint will not be conducive to axial stiffness....but WILL make for good radial stiffness (and we saw that in his video). Yes....I have worked with the production of a lot of laminated plastic and rubber products. I saw what I expected.
But....looking at what that joint is good at....if you throw couple of cheap strengthening washer plates on there with a couple of spacers.... it will probably fix it.
Ray |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 42084
Location: at the beach
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2025 4:14 pm Post subject: Re: Steering Coupling Disc 211415417 (coupler) |
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there are a lot of weird old parts floating around some parts of Europe that are still out there. Someone who needs one of the rubber discs might consider contacting these people and asking what they actually have in their inventory. Caveat - photos lie, sellers lie, and "you snooze - you loose" when it comes to old NLA parts if they have a box of the real McCoy. Bob Hood beat me one time to a NOS nla part by 15 minutes - and it was not even advertised by the seller yet. Both of us just had a hunch from some other parts they were selling. took me a year to track down another one, and the guy had two. Tom Dodger has the other one now. So consider contacting these folks.
https://www.beetle.cz/en/obchod/nahradni-dily/dily...zeni-t2-a/
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rob.e
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