1964 Safari Beige Notchback Preservation

[notchboy]

Dang Dude.
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[KylanC]

Dang is right.. lol. While I'm not surprised this has happened to others it's still a major bummer. Gonna be digging into it later this week and will post more pictures of the carnage. No plans or timeline for a rebuild right now til I can assess all the damage and what's useable and what's not. Like Bob said. I'm suspecting a rod, but why or how? Only the lord knows right now.. We had just gotten back from Palm Springs the day before this happened. Definitely was oil in it. Just kind of a freak thing cause it'd been running great for so long. Ah well.. When life gives ya lemons and you have the labor of love..
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1964 safari beige (L563) notchback 1500 S
1966 Blue Squareback (sold)

[KylanC]

I think I found the crevasse to the depths of hell .. Too dramatic? lol.. But that is UTTER DEVISTATION if I have ever seen it. Motor is being dropped either tomorrow or Friday. Start disassembly then. Just trying to find the motivation.. but maybe getting this on the road again and having a car again should be motivation enough. Oh well.. Time & Money.. Time & Money..

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1964 safari beige (L563) notchback 1500 S
1966 Blue Squareback (sold)

[KylanC]

So uuuuuuuuhh... Check this out... Dropped the motor today and tore it apart. Parts, pieces, hardware, crap everywhere.. organized mess.. I didn't believe anything internal was going to be useable again and well I was "semi" right.. Motor kinda had taken a beating even before it seized. BUT lol... we FOUND THE CAUSE. check this out..

So the end of the spark plug broke.. how? I couldn't tel you.. But it looks like maybe by mistake maybe I tightened it down a little too hard the last time maybe and the hole for the spark plug was toast too. The threads were fine but you can see here that it was definitely not looking good in there..

But uh ya.. so I popped the valve cover and that's when I noticed the the rocker arm shaft was bent and not sitting right on the pushrod. Took that off and then the head and HOLY CRAP..... NEVER SEEN THIS BEFORE AND I MEAN HOLYYYY CRAAAAP. Valves gone.. not only is the valve gone but the whole piston is GONE.. ya you read that right.. the valve AND piston are GONE. shredded on #4... like talk about a cheese grater.. how does all of that happen in 5 seconds? cause I didn't hear or notice anything til about 5 seconds before it seized. but oh well.. Took it apart the rest of the way and it was nothing but metal shards inside. Cranks bent. head is destroyed. Case is destroyed and so much is just toast... I got a long shopping list of stuff I'm gonna need to get/find but I'll save ya that for now. It's true what they say about me.. When I do it I freakin do it good that's for sure.. lol.. I am IN FOR IT right now.. At least I can get more of a game plan together now and have a better idea of what things are gonna cost and what I gotta do. Here's the rest of the photos of what I found on the tear down.

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1964 safari beige (L563) notchback 1500 S
1966 Blue Squareback (sold)

[Tram]

Looks like what actually happened is you "dropped a valve", e.g., the stem broke and dropped the valve head into the combustion chamber. The damage here is way more extensive than I am used to seeing from this type of failure for sure, though.
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Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.

[KylanC]

[Bobnotch]

[KylanC]

Yup, The ultimate goal is to find a good useable long block that has everything from heads and all that to the cam and crank. My shopping list is lengthy though since I wanna make sure this motor is good for more than 5 years:
Case
crankshaft
new camshaft
new lifters
new pistons/cylinders
new valves/valve guides
new valve seats
new or good used rocker arm assembly
new pushrods/pushrod tubes
refurbished oil cooler
new sump plate
new oil filter
engine gasket kit
exhaust clamps
Also need another muffler and a fan shroud. Fan shroud cracked in a few places and not sure if its weldable or worth saving and the muffler after we took it off was looking in poor shape. could see some areas where the metal was thin and my idiot friend poked some holes in it.. one hole was big enough you could see it rusting from the inside so maybe it was a good thing he did? Idk still pissed me off but at least I know now that the muffler is rusting inside or was. Anyways. Lengthy list that's for sure.. Luckily I live in Southern California where I know some good folks and parts aren't terribly hard to come by.
Anything else anybody suggests I keep in mind or should look into getting that I left out? Had a lot of stuff going on and a lot of bad news/luck lately that my heads still spinning so it's been tough trying to keep my marbles in the jar. Lol where's Michael when you need him..
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1964 safari beige (L563) notchback 1500 S
1966 Blue Squareback (sold)

[Bobnotch]

[KylanC]

The saga continues, I'm lucky enough to know some pretty incredible people. Being lucky enough to know these incredible people, my search for a donor motor was not too difficult at all. I was lucky enough to pick up a spare motor that Jack had stashed at the Type 3 Factory. Cannot thank that guy enough. Although I had some serious cleaning to do when I got it home, but that's fine cause that's just part of the game. This is the donor motor when I got it home and on the bench

It had been sitting for 20 some years I think he said and so 20 years of dust and dirt and grime needed to be cleaned up and disassembled. The tear down was easy and for how long everything had been sitting there was not a single nut, bolt, or screw that was stripped or seized. I tore it down to just the long block and dropped it off at Brien Roth's shop in Orange and had him do the long block rebuild. This case had never been rebuilt so everything was from the factory, including the ever so cool 15ooS domed pistons, early 15oo heads, no cam bearings inside, some pretty interesting type 3 nerd stuff over here that I got to see. Although, Brien and I discussed and as much as I like the early an OG stuff for the sake of practicality and availability we decided to "update" a handful of things on it to make it better for daily driving.

All the updates and list of new things are as follows:
The case is now bored out to a 1600, case savers were installed, it was machined for cam bearings, the oil cooler ports were drilled out for more flow to fit the later style oil cooler, and the oil pump is now the bigger 26mm oil pump for the same reason of better circulation. New stock sized Engle cam, new AA pistons and cylinders, and later 66 style single port heads because theres more cooling fin meat which will be better for my driving style of rain or shine, near or far, every. damn. day. Everything was maticulously balanced and put together by Brien who is incredible at what he does. Compression ratio of 8:1.

In my time of waiting for the long block to be built I was stuck with cleaning up parts and painting so when I got the call that it's done I could start throwing it all together. The previous motor I had, the exhaust on it had an exhaust leak that I tried to put a band aid on before I took it and had it welded, but shame on me.. I didn't realize how bad it was because I didn't see this or really hear a noticeable difference (I must be going deaf.. what!?!? ). There was a giant tear in the muffler along with the other 2 cut strips in between one of the seams. Needless to say by looking at it this thing was done. toast. Need a new muffler. Alex didn't have any of the early 1500S 64' exhausts, but I knew Mario did so I got in touch with him and now have a solid exhaust again. Here are the tears in the old muffler. Wild stuff..

I just picked up the long block today and it sure does look pretty. It'll look a lot prettier when it's all done up and complete. My semester ends this week so after this week I have 4 months of summer break and I can focus all on this and work. the goal is to complete the motor build within 2 more weeks and then break it in, tune it, and have a running car again. Seems fairly realistic and reasonable. I just have a few more tins and pieces I need to throw a couples extra coats of paint on and it'll really start to get going. As of right now this is how it looks. I couldn't help but atleast do something with it when I got home from picking it up so I put the Bosch 4R3 dizzy on and the fuel pump and that's how it sits currently. I plan to post more photos of the build and hopefully will have a more exciting update in the next couple weeks to share of the motor being completed, break in stage, and installation into the car. Just stoked I am finally starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel!

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1964 safari beige (L563) notchback 1500 S
1966 Blue Squareback (sold)

[Bobnotch]

Congrats, that was probably the best way to go...getting a complete used engine from Jack, and then having it gone thru. Nice job, and keep posting progress pics. Have you talked to your rebuilder about what oil he'd like you to use for the break in procedure? Just asking as cam failure IS a real thing these days.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120

[KylanC]

Thanks Bob, Gonna use Valvoline VR1 20w50 for break in. I know there may be some kick back on that from some people, but that is what I have always used and that is what the engine builder has always used as well and he's built plenty motors and I definitely trust him.

I finished building the motor last week and now it just sits on the engine stand. For whatever reason the early mufflers have always given me trouble, and I know I've whined about it in the past in this thread about how getting it to fit can be a major pain in the ass. Well I'm more resilient now or resourceful than in the past. Only natural that you would get better over time right? lol I was thinking about it and this is the 4th motor I have had in the car now since I bought the car back in 2017.

Obviously, throughout the build I was cleaning and painting all the parts, using mostly brand new shiny hardware, and doing my best to keep it looking clean and pretty. I have a pet peeve for dirty/unorganized engines. I opted to got the cheap rustoleum spray enamel route and used the semi gloss black on all the black tins, charcoal grey on the manifolds sine it looked rather close to the original anthracite, and metallic silver on miscellaneous bits and pieces to clean them up.

In the process, I ran into an interesting issue that caught me questioning myself. It had been a while since I built a motor. I completely forgot that there were 2 different sized manifold o rings. 1200 style (small) and 1600 style (bigger). In my gasket kit there was only the 1200 style ones and when I put it in the single port seat I was tripping.. Asked a couple friends what the deal was and I was reminded of the different sizes. Luckily I had some of the right size in my stash.

Thanks to Jack for the donor motor I know have the "correct" early style plug wire holder bracket instead of the later style. REMEMBER it's all about the little details

Like I had mentioned earlier I had issues with a new muffler that I had bought from Mario. It seems as though someone had welded it in the past but when they welded it they got the angle for the flanges way off.. Before I noticed that I did things a little after the fact.. should have gotten my engine stand from a friend a long time ago and put the motor on that way earlier, but ce la vie right? So with the motor now on the stand I loosened up the heater boxes completely so it was all loose and had as much wiggle room as possible and nothing was lining up. I could get one side lined up but not the other.

The solution you ask? How did I resolve this previous persons mistake of welding the muffler flanges on wrong? No I did not re-weld them, I went the barbaric method of hammer and 2x4 lol. I took the old muffler the came off the blown up motor and refit it to make sure I wasn't crazy. Proceeded to trace the flames on a piece of cardboard so I could see visually how far apart they were and easily align the other muffler. Measured across from one flange to the center of the opposite hole in the good on to see how far it was off from fitting and then with a friend holding the muffler while they have every bit of faith in me I just beat it with a hammer the 2x4 till It moved far enough to where we needed it. I;d hit it a few times, check the movement on the template we made, the aligned with the other muffler to be sure and after a handful of times and a lot of hammering, IT WORKED. Finally had it moved over enough to where it would align itself on the heads. Buttoned everything up together and it is now ready for break in.

Break in day is tomorrow.. WOO! Brien, the engine builder, has a bench tester he so kindly is allowing me to bring it over and break it in on that and tune it there so all I have to do after is put the clutch on and put it in the car. Makes for easier repairs and less time if any surprises come up, but we aren't gonna think like that, we're thinking good thought! One major step closer. Just gotta finish it off now..
p.s. I did replace that tin screw holding the vacuum hoses brakes on with a matching bolt to the plug wire bracket, nice and shiny of course, just not pictured here and Michael don't make fun of my clamps! LOL. alright.. back to business!
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1964 safari beige (L563) notchback 1500 S
1966 Blue Squareback (sold)

[Bobnotch]

The engine looks damn good. I'm wondering if your new muffler might have gotten dropped in shipping to knock the flanges that far out. Wouldn't be the first time something like that happened to someone here. I know I've had parts delivered to someone else's house before a couple of times. Just keep after it, and you'll be back on the road again soon.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120

[EverettB]

Nice work and nice work with the 2x4 too.

It would not surprise me if the reason that muffler was still around is that it was produced incorrectly so no one ever used it.

I have an NOS single carb manifold like that.
It's bent too narrow to even fit over the engine tin with no evidence of damage.
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[KylanC]

Danke Shoen, gentlemen. Unfortunately I wasn't able to break in the motor last week, but it will get done. In due time it will get done. In the mean time while I'm waiting for the green light I decided to install a new steering coupler which had been giving me trouble for some time. I wasn't able to use my horn because the steering coupler was so worn the continuity was very prevalent with the ground for the horn. New steering coupler in tightened up the steering a little bit. I can now use my horn too.

I also took this time to clean the gas tank too since it had been sitting for 5 months, I figured why not just flush it, clean it, and start fresh with a new motor. Was able to clean up the frunk liner too while I was at it. Forgot to get pictures of those things.. oh well.. Just doing Little things that will help once I am back on the road. Next update will be with a driving car. WOO!
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1964 safari beige (L563) notchback 1500 S
1966 Blue Squareback (sold)

[squaretobehip]

Do you have the cotter pins for those castle nuts? I only ask because you aren't using newer nylon locking nuts.
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1963 Notchback - Ruby Red
1963 Squareback - Pearl White
1965 Squareback - Baltic Blue

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[KylanC]

[squaretobehip]

[Bobnotch]

[KylanC]

MOTOR IS IN! Break in went smooth.. Fired right up and ran it at 2000 rpm's for 20 minutes and let it cool down then took it home and installed it in the car. Drained the oil, changed filters, checked valves, and then off we went. Motor runs BITCHIN. Here it is on the bench tester for break in

After driving it the first time the only real issue I noticed was that I was seeping fuel from the plastic flange below the fuel pump. The pump itself was dry everywhere but beneath the plastic flange it was seeping, not a lot and you couldn't visually see it flowing out either.. Checking the manual, leaking fuel indicates the diaphragm is bad in one way, shape, or form.

Out comes the fuel pump for a rebuild. Luckily WW makes a rebuild kit for these early pumps and after going back and forth talking with Pedro, reading the manual, and Pedro's thread on how to rebuild the early pumps, I felt confident on rebuilding it myself. It seems the most tedious thing is just ensuring the diaphragm itself is calibrated correctly. In case anybody needs the part number for early rebuild kits here is a photo of the part number and most of what comes in the kit. Not pictured are the flange gasket and fuel pump gasket as I had already installed those

I do not have the tool to calibrate the diaphragm to its desired 14mm. Improvise.. So Rolled the motor over to TDC knowing that the rod would be at the 14mm height and before tightening the screws to the top of the pump I installed the pump to the flange/engine case and THEN tightened the screws to the top of the pump the rest of the way. Easy peasy.. Ran the car for a little bit and so far no leak. Going to be driving it around a little more to ensure that there is no fuel seeping anymore. I did reuse the original spring that was in the old diaphragm as Pedro had mentioned it is better than the spring that comes with the new diaphragm. Thank you for that heads up! This is how it currently sits in the car.

Feeling very good to have it running and driving again. I've put less than 50 miles on it since initial installation, but will be driving it around these next few days and keeping an eye on everything, but so far so good! I have this extra little hose clamp for either a vacuum line to the distributor or for a fuel line. I think this one is supposed to be for the vacuum line since it is smaller than the other on the motor right now.

I just replaced all the fuel lines and am debating replacing and rerouting the inlet fuel line from the tank to the pump since I have this extra clamp/older. I have seen pictures in the manual that have it routed onto of the tin and infant of the distrutor and then to the pump with the vacuum hose routed differently as well. I am VERY OCD and everything must be organized and have a place and look clean/routed properly. It looks okay now and I am not worried about how the line is routed right now but my OCD gets the best of me. oh well.. Happy trails! lol.
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1964 safari beige (L563) notchback 1500 S
1966 Blue Squareback (sold)